SGC - say it aint so

[Fred]

For clarification -

SGC will not cross over the cards in the older holders (cards graded with the 10, 20, 30, etc scale) to a new slab? Is that correct (it seemed fairly clear in the post).

Is there an easy way to determine if the cards were placed in the slabs by the old or new management? I see SGC has newer style flips. Are these new flips indicative of the new "regime" in place at SGC?

[jchcollins]

A properly graded card in a properly sealed SGC slab is still a thing of beauty, but as they continue to attempt to grow out of the britches that made them popular with vintage collectors originally, you are seeing more and more mistakes like this. Not surprising.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Fred

For clarification -

SGC will not cross over the cards in the older holders (cards graded with the 10, 20, 30, etc scale) to a new slab? Is that correct (it seemed fairly clear in the post).

Is there an easy way to determine if the cards were placed in the slabs by the old or new management? I see SGC has newer style flips. Are these new flips indicative of the new "regime" in place at SGC?

Thanks Fred,

I had not been aware of that grading issue regarding cards graded on the old SGC scale of 1-100, and how they won't automatically cross them over. And again, because I don't grade cards, I usually don't think about such stuff.

The part that surprises me a bit though is based on something I saw earlier in the thread about how the old guaranty went out the window with a change in owners. Again, I don't pay particular attention to TPGs and their dealings and such when they are bought or sold. The thing is though, the owners of a company are typically completely independent of the company itself. By that I mean if you incorporate or organize your entity as a type of LLC, the company is considered separate from the owners. You can have shareholders/LLC owners sell their interests to others, but the actual company itself, and all the legal agreements, contracts, and everything else they ever entered into are typically still in force and legally binding, and carryover to the new owners.

And that is exactly why a lot of times, when people look to buy/sell their businesses, they don't just buy/sell the stock of the corporation, or membership units of the LLC, instead they sell the actual underlying assets of the business. The new owners will set up an entirely new entity to buy those assets, and then operate the business through that new entity going forward. Doing so allows the new owners typically to completely remove any and all responsibility and liability for any old agreements, contracts, guaranties, or anything else of that sort that the old entity had been part of and/or agreed to. And not honoring or carrying over those old SGC grades would likely be part of it as well. As someone earlier noted, the old SGC name was also rebranded a bit at the same time as the 1-100 grading scale was being abandoned. I haven't done any checking or research, but the circumstances sure seem to point to when that ownership changed, there was an asset sale by the old SGC to the new SGC that took place so the new company could abandon the guaranties and promises the old company had made. Which basically makes anything in the old slabs worthless, or at least worth a lot less, in the eyes of the hobby. Just look at GAI graded cards that are still out there.

Oh, and the new company also buying and continuing to use the old company name, along with other things like continuing to list older slabs they do not guarantee or stand behind any more on their pop reports, is just a deceptive, but legal, way for the new company to make new and old customers think it is still basically the same company. It is also how the old company owners can cash out and profit off the goodwill and positive reputation they had built up, by actually selling the rights to the company name along with things like the old pop report records. Meanwhile the new company owners buying these, get all the rewards with none of the risks, while often also fooling a lot of people into thinking that nothing has really changed.

Not directing this spiel at you Fred, but more to let others know how things that can end up affecting them personally like that can happen, and maybe more importantly, why they happen. Any of the TPG owners out there today could suddenly decide to cash out and simply sell their assets and company name to someone else, completely abandoning the guarantees and promises made to their customers. Something for people to keep in mind that love and rely on the value in their graded cards so much. The TPG owners can go at any time, without your consent or permission, and pretty much dump any guarantees or promises you thought they had ever made to you as their customer, by simply selling everything off. And collectors can't even go back against the old, original company and its owners on such guarantees or promises because typically after such sales, the old owners immediately remove all cash and remaining assets from the old company, and either abandon or formally shut it down. And of course, one of the, if not the biggest, reasons people incorporate or set up their businesses as LLCs is because in doing so, they know you typically can't ever come after them personally for any liabilities, suits, or guarantees. Definite food for thought and something for hobby collectors to keep in the back of their minds.

[BobC]

Sorry, double post.

[Fred]

Bob,

I think I get it. New SGC doesn't have to honor anything the old SGC did or said was part of their charter which was something people trusted would be around for a long time.

GAI and SGC were quite different in that most of the old SGC graded material was much more reliable than the GAI encapsulations. Initially GAI was pretty good, but then it became obvious that trimmed/altered cards were being slabbed with numerical grades. After that, I think people lost faith in them and GAI ended up as a suspect TPG (not that they all aren't).

I think the "old" SGC slabs are fine but they were always behind PSA in sales price, especially for post-war cards. It's just a shame that new SGC is turning their back on old SGC slabs. It's all good, I'll be happy to take a discount on an old SGC slabbed card I feel good about.

This thread has probably run its course. My initial reaction to the slabbed trimmed OJ with a numerical grade was just disappointment.