SGC - say it aint so

[BobC]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Thanks for finding it. I didn't realize they did, or forgot over the years.

This is from it, in big bold letters:
"Important Limitation: Under no circumstance will compensation be paid in instances where Owner has suffered no actual damages as a result of the error in certification or in reliance on the Guarantee."

Saw that limitation as well John. So, the big question is then, what is their definition of 'damages".

Someone buys a card and pays based on the incorrect grade, and then takes it back to CSG to be re-holdered and finds out it was incorrectly graded. I assume "damages" would be the amount they overpaid for the card based on what it's correct FMV at the time of the purchase would have been, had it been properly graded to begin with. Of course, that also assumes that CSG agrees/affirms that they incorrectly graded the card to begin with. They could just re-holder it with the incorrect grade and say nothing. And you can't go to a different TPG that says the grade is wrong, because to my knowledge, NONE of the TPGs will ever recognize, affirm, or rely upon the grading opinions of any other TPGs out there, nor are they legally bound to. (Another big reason I keep saying we need one set of grading standards recognized across the entire hobby, and that ALL the TPGs are forced to follow and recognize among themselves.)

But what about an owner that goes to sell a card they've owned for a long time, and can now make a big profit on because that card's value has skyrocketed over the years. They find a potential buyer, but the potential buyer questions the grade. So the parties agree to have it reviewed. Potential buyer and seller take the card to a local show that CSG is in attendance at, and ask them to review the grade. CSG acknowledges it is incorrectly over graded, and the potential buyer backs out of the deal. So the owner, who also happens to be the one who originally submitted the card to CSG for grading, takes it back to CSG and says they just lost $XXXX of profit on the card's sale because of their grading mistake. And say the owner was counting on and really needed that money to pay for some medical expenses, or maybe college tuition for a child, or some other personal need or reason. What, if any, are the "damages" CSG would recognize and pay/reimburse the owner for? I can certainly see what the owner would view as his "damages".

It would be so much nicer if these types/kinds of guarantees/agreements weren't always so ambiguous. Makes you start to wonder if the businesses/attorneys that came up with them didn't do that intentionally all along.

[Fred]

What does SGC stand for? I always thought it was Sportscard Guarantee Company. Maybe I've been wrong all this time. I guess it must mean Sportscard Grading Company.

I don't trust these companies very much but I'll be honest and admit I've sent hundreds of cards to both PSA and SGC in the past. I haven't sent anything in in at least 8-10 years because the pricing/fee structure based on card valuation just got a bit too much for me to keep up with.

It was interesting to deal with PSA. One time they sent back a 1971T card in really nice condition saying it had color added. I was like floored. I owned the card since the 70s and I know I didn't make any alterations to it. The card was sent in again and came back with an "8" grade. After getting a few cards back with the "OC" designation I scratched my head. Ok, the cards weren't perfectly centered but you could easily guess that they just eyeball these things. I had cards returned that I thought were OC when submitted without the OC qualifier. I never made the request of "No qualifiers" for the submissions.

I stuck more with SGC after a while because I liked the holders with the nice black contrasting.

If there was two things I liked about GAI holders it's the black background contrast (like SGC) and that little ID tag they put at the top edge of the slab (see picture below).

Regarding rebacked cards, sometimes it's not very easy to determine if an OJ was rebacked. The albumen image for the card for this thread (Darling) obviously doesn't cover the entire surface area for the backing/stiffner, but I've seen a lot of OJs like this and assumed the card was probably at the top of the albumen sheet and the cutter just missed the top edge of the sheet. I've seen it that way on bottoms and sides also and make the same assumption.

Obvious rebacked cards are easy to detect because the backing seems very different from most OJs. For examples, stock is too thick, wrong type of material/stock, the backing isn't creased or damaged even though the photo has that defect.

What would be nice if there were "industry standards" that all TPGs would adhere to. For example (one of my pet peeves), no numerical grades to cards that are hand cut or have a tab removed, like a Zeenut.

If there are no guarantees associated with the actual card grading, (cover the card owner for monetary losses due to an egregious error in grading), then the only reason I could see for a fee structure based on card value is to cover insurance and I'm going to guess that these TPGs aren't paying the amount charged for the grading to cover the insurance cost. I'm guessing they're pocketing quite a bit of that fee.

Maybe one day the TPGs will come up with an environmentally friendly material other than plastic for the slabs. Ok, just joking there. But it makes you wonder just how much plastic has been used to encapsulate all this cardboard.

[swarmee]

SGC did originally have 'Guaranty' in their name, but when they went to the tuxedo flips, they rebranded as gosgc.com and eliminated the words that SGC stood for, while also eliminating their grade guarantee.
Even before that time, when the guarantee was in effect, it was only for cards graded during the present ownership group. So when the company was sold, none of those previously graded cards were grandfathered into the guarantee, because the liability was effectively absolved during the sale.