What would a 1914 Baltimore Ruth sell for today?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobC

That kind of crap would certainly not fly far or long today.

That's pretty optimistic...

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

That's pretty optimistic...

I know, I know, LOL!

But with the internet, cell phones, social media, sites like Net54, and everything else, it would be much harder to hide and get away with crap like that without everyone finding out about it pretty quickly. And I think if enough people started hearing those kind of stories, including consignors, there'd be some questions to answer to a lot of people.

But you do have a good point in how it seems like no matter what bad things some people do, it ends up getting forgotten. But in this case, the "stuff trumps everything" thinking wouldn't necessarily work. Because all the people that want the stuff and would be bidding on things still aren't getting it because of some back door deals between the auctioneer/seller and their "Special Customer". That would eventually get out and then you'd end up having all the other hobby whales wanting to get in on the "special deals" themselves. Enough other people, not afforded the same sweetheart deal, with enough money and influence like that, could end up creating an interesting situation for the auctioneer/seller, and the hobby in general. And you know with things like they are today, this would leak out there pretty quickly for everyone to know. And since modern auctions are all pretty much run online over the internet with software and all, how many people do you think would continue bidding if they found out they won, and then kept getting cancelled for some special inside deal after the fact. And an auctioneer trying to run auctions in another manner not along the way modern things are done would raise some serious questions among bidders, and especially consignors, if they were both getting screwed. They system will still work if just one side is getting continually screwed, but not if both of them are getting screwed for the sole benefit of just the auctioneer and his "special friend".

What would most likely happen today is that someone that had such a "special deal" in the past, like it is alleged that Copeland may have had with Rosen, would be required to put in outrageous max bids as opposed to being able to put in a "Tops All Bids" bid. And we both know, if people knew or thought there was someone out there doing that, there are those that would then purposely run up the max bidder as high as they could. Just for fun! And then we'll see how far the auctioneer and his friend's friendship really goes should the "special friend" suddenly then decide to say, "I'm not paying that much for that!"

[lowpopper]

the lack of eye appeal makes this card awesome

[Shoeless Moe]

Found this on Ebay this week. Probably hasn't seen the light of day in 100 years. (Equally cool, belonged to Forrest Cady one of Ruth's catchers & Red Sox teammate)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...cadyhi01.shtml

Just goes to show there are still rare Ruth items out there waiting to be discovered.

Maybe a BN (an actual real one that is) will show up one day.


"Ya gotta believe!"

-Tug McGraw

[Schlesinj]

Very very cool

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BobC

What would most likely happen today is that someone that had such a "special deal" in the past, like it is alleged that Copeland may have had with Rosen, would be required to put in outrageous max bids as opposed to being able to put in a "Tops All Bids" bid. And we both know, if people knew or thought there was someone out there doing that, there are those that would then purposely run up the max bidder as high as they could. Just for fun! And then we'll see how far the auctioneer and his friend's friendship really goes should the "special friend" suddenly then decide to say, "I'm not paying that much for that!"

Bob: There's at least one auction house today that will accept "TOP ALL BIDS" bids, and there could be more.

I've never attempted it, but I've always been intrigued by the concept. Like you posited, part of the challenge would be the potential for someone to keep bidding it up to the point where even those of us who are willing to pay outrageous prices would finally decide it just isn't worth it.

Proof: https://memorylaneinc.com/site/terms.pdf

Scroll down about halfway down the first page, to where they have a quick sentence about the Top All Bids feature.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by raulus

Bob: There's at least one auction house today that will accept "TOP ALL BIDS" bids, and there could be more.

I've never attempted it, but I've always been intrigued by the concept. Like you posited, part of the challenge would be the potential for someone to keep bidding it up to the point where even those of us who are willing to pay outrageous prices would finally decide it just isn't worth it.

Proof: https://memorylaneinc.com/site/terms.pdf

Scroll down about halfway down the first page, to where they have a quick sentence about the Top All Bids feature.

Nic,

There is? Was not aware of that. Not going to ask you to name them, but just out of curiosity, are they headquartered in Texas?

I would hope that the big difference in someone doing/allowing that today is that when someone else bids, they do get immediately told they've been outbid then. If so, it is still pretty much the same thing as putting up a ridiculous max bid.

Silly follow-up question then. Does this auction seller in their bidding rules say what happens if two or more people want to put up a "Tops All Bids" bid then on the same particular item? I imagine that if an item is rare and valuable enough, say like a 1914 Baltimore News Ruth, it wouldn't be too hard to think that two, or maybe even more, people would possibly want to use that "Tops All Bids" option, if it is known to be available. So, am curious then what their rules say if that happens, because they technically, and literally, can't give that option to two different bidders on the same item, can they? And if they end up only allowing one person to put in such a bid on each item, pretty much everyone who knows they even allow the "Tops All Bids" option on items will immediately know someone else beat them to it on a particular item that get told they can't use the "Tops All Bids: option on. And if it were me that got told I couldn't put a "Tops All Bids" bid in because I was too late, I'd have no trouble bidding up that person that beat me to it to the moon and back, and make them pay. The consignor would probably love it, but you'll likely end up with one real pissed off bidder.

Another possible bad result an AH could end up with by allowing "Tops All Bids" bids, would be if I was again too late and got beat out by someone else already using that option on an item. Except in this case, I just didn't waste my time bidding on the item at all then, since I knew I'd never win it. And as a result, the consignor maybe ends up getting screwed because no one else that was bidding would have gone anywhere near as high as I would have. And now the AH has a pissed off consignor. Let us all know what you do know then.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobC

Nic,

There is? Was not aware of that. Not going to ask you to name them, but just out of curiosity, are they headquartered in Texas?

I would hope that the big difference in someone doing/allowing that today is that when someone else bids, they do get immediately told they've been outbid then. If so, it is still pretty much the same thing as putting up a ridiculous max bid.

Silly follow-up question then. Does this auction seller in their bidding rules say what happens if two or more people want to put up a "Tops All Bids" bid then on the same particular item? I imagine that if an item is rare and valuable enough, say like a 1914 Baltimore News Ruth, it wouldn't be too hard to think that two, or maybe even more, people would possibly want to use that "Tops All Bids" option, if it is known to be available. So, am curious then what their rules say if that happens, because they technically, and literally, can't give that option to two different bidders on the same item, can they? And if they end up only allowing one person to put in such a bid on each item, pretty much everyone who knows they even allow the "Tops All Bids" option on items will immediately know someone else beat them to it on a particular item that get told they can't use the "Tops All Bids: option on. And if it were me that got told I couldn't put a "Tops All Bids" bid in because I was too late, I'd have no trouble bidding up that person that beat me to it to the moon and back, and make them pay. The consignor would probably love it, but you'll likely end up with one real pissed off bidder.

Another possible bad result an AH could end up with by allowing "Tops All Bids" bids, would be if I was again too late and got beat out by someone else already using that option on an item. Except in this case, I just didn't waste my time bidding on the item at all then, since I knew I'd never win it. And as a result, the consignor maybe ends up getting screwed because no one else that was bidding would have gone anywhere near as high as I would have. And now the AH has a pissed off consignor. Let us all know what you do know then.

As an auctioneer I think "top all bids" is an horrific idea. For the reasons you mentioned, but also for the simple fact that an auction is supposed to be about determining the market through open competition. It's the same reason I'm not a fan of reserves, or even worse of auctions retaining the right to put "bad faith" bids in to lift items to just below a reserve and a number of other practices that seek to remove all risk from the auction process. If you want to remove the risk of an auction and have only the reward, you don't really want to run an auction.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

As an auctioneer I think "top all bids" is an horrific idea. For the reasons you mentioned, but also for the simple fact that an auction is supposed to be about determining the market through open competition. It's the same reason I'm not a fan of reserves, or even worse of auctions retaining the right to put "bad faith" bids in to lift items to just below a reserve and a number of other practices that seek to remove all risk from the auction process. If you want to remove the risk of an auction and have only the reward, you don't really want to run an auction.

I hear you, and couldn't agree more. Still very surprised if Nic is correct and some AH actually still does that today.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

As an auctioneer I think "top all bids" is an horrific idea. For the reasons you mentioned, but also for the simple fact that an auction is supposed to be about determining the market through open competition. It's the same reason I'm not a fan of reserves, or even worse of auctions retaining the right to put "bad faith" bids in to lift items to just below a reserve and a number of other practices that seek to remove all risk from the auction process. If you want to remove the risk of an auction and have only the reward, you don't really want to run an auction.

Hell, Scott, no one who owns a card wants to run it in an auction; we'd all prefer a sure thing. Auctions just happen to generate sales more readily than parking the items in an eBay 'museum', but make no mistake: when I consign, I don't give a rat's ass about the 'market'. I ain't selling to determine a market, I am selling to make money, as much as I can. If my choice is between a 'market' price or getting paid stupid money by some idiot who has to have the item no matter what, I am all for the latter option.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hell, Scott, no one who owns a card wants to run it in an auction; we'd all prefer a sure thing. Auctions just happen to generate sales more readily than parking the items in an eBay 'museum', but make no mistake: when I consign, I don't give a rat's ass about the 'market'. I ain't selling to determine a market, I am selling to make money, as much as I can. If my choice is between a 'market' price or getting paid stupid money by some idiot who has to have the item no matter what, I am all for the latter option.

I'm all for the idiot, preferably two for each item, but let that idiot win it the old fashioned way, that's establishing the market the way an auction should. I'm definitely a snob about the auction process, and I know that makes me a weirdo, even among people I genuinely like and respect.

[Golfcollector]

what happens if two different bidders both put in a "Top All Bidders" requirement on an item....

Do the two of them Rochambeau for it???

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Golfcollector

what happens if two different bidders both put in a "Top All Bidders" requirement on an item....

Do the two of them Rochambeau for it???

Pretty sure the price goes to infinity, and (more importantly) the juice is also infinity.