Where is the second ledger of T cards?

[sb1]

The Mentor Co.(Ramly, TTT and other cigarettes) led by Telemachus Thomas Timayenis, was involved in myriad of lawsuits between other cigarette manufacturers and the ATC as well. There are dozens of newspaper articles of the day documenting his feuds with them. Timayenis seemed to go out of his way to create issues for his various endeavors and was never shy to seek litigation or run from it.

[1880nonsports]

I remember seeing one of the ledgers at a national - a treasure for anyone interested in the history of production obviously.... GREAT thread - wishing I was on my way IN instead of mostly OUT.

[G1911]

It's been 11 months, which feels close enough to 12 for me to do my annual bump and see if anyone new sees and can point the way to this valuable book. I don't want to pester its owner to buy it, merely see the pages for the research wing of the hobby (which sure can't hurt its value!).

I've put together all my notes and documents to compile a book-length work on the E and T boxing cards. With my luck, I know this volume will finally surface for viewing and to help resolve our remaining mysteries and unknowns as soon as I call it finished and push it out there for dissemination...

[doug.goodman]

I have pretty close to zero interest in T cards, but this is a fascinating thread.

Good luck with your quest.

Doug

[G1911]

Unfortunately for researchers, this document was cut up and at least partially destroyed.

Several pages were recently sold (here's one https://www.cleansweepauctions.com/item-847203/ - I was not a bidder. The listing doesn't state it, but this is T225-1 and it is from 1909, not 1910), and some had the cards soaked out and sold without the pages. At least some of those pages with the cards still attached were partially destroyed before sale - for example, the T225 proofs page has the Goodman completely missing that we could see when the book first sold. The page has its slot with the damage from the back of the card being ripped out still attached.

I hope the pages without cards that had production information or other details were not just thrown in the trash, but it appears unlikely that everything survives now and will ever be fully shown. I was hoping this resource would be photographed or documented before its inevitable destruction for dollars, but usually these things are scattered or destroyed before any effort to document.

Thank you to those who let me know when these came up for sale, kept their eyes open and contributed to the subsequent research and production data analysis the pages we have seen have enabled. Presumably other pages, or the cards soaked/ripped out of them, will crop up and may give us more information.

[G1911]

Among the items shown as a result, are these T175 proofs. T175 was done shortly before the New York privacy laws at the turn of the century, and was printed on the package flap instead of inserted. A typewritten note reads "No privileges or consent was given by these great men to publish their pictures.", followed by a handwritten note in Fullgraff's penmanship that looks to me to say "And not one kick [lick?]. They like it".

Inside look at how subject 'rights' were viewed before they had to secure rights. Fulgraff and the lithographers would excise any mention of tobacco or exactly what the images would be used for in the contracts they secured from subjects a few years later, which is presumably what resulted in Harry Porter's lawsuit alleging he did not give his permission (and Honus Wagner's confusion?).