Where is the second ledger of T cards?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

There seems to have been a lot of these ‘fraud’ brands like the second Anargyros, piggy backing off established ATC brands and sub firms. The rejected registrations have a lot of what seem to be these, like “Count Tolstoi”. The real Anargyros and Metropolitan seem to flip flop between being front holding firms and just openly being subsidiary operators of the ATC. There’s so much inconsistency in how the ATC is operating in 1910.

Mecca in Canada is of special interest to me. The Adless version of Mecca’s T218 is labelled a Canadian issue (C52) and many of the cards have come from Canada and the American northeast, but I’ve also got an original batch from a Virginia provenance and I am not yet entirely sold on the general narrative that any T card with a card number in place of advertising is an Imperial Tobacco product. I didn’t come across anything that Turkey Red or Piedmont were actually issued in Canada, the registrations don’t mean they were actually sold there. Worthy of deeper digging

In your dives into Obak, do you have anything in your notes on Pet and Kopec? The west coast brands that released the T224/T229 set closely related to T212. Obak appears a lot in the primary material I’ve been through and seems to have been popular but these brands rarely earn mention. I would assume they were also run by the same people.

I haven't found anything at all on Kopec but I did find a little bit about Pets Cigarettes here's an ad for them and it's the other Anagyros that the lawsuit was brought against.
February 12 1910 Oakland Tribune
[IMG][/IMG]

I'm positive I saw something on the Imperial Tobacco company producing Mecca Cigarettes but I wasn't able to locate it again yet. It was just a couple of days ago when I was researching something else. I should have saved it but they recently changed things, I used to be able to clip and save them without interrupting what I'm researching but now I have to print it out and scan it.

[Pat R]

Some more info on the Pets Cigarettes. N. Anargyros must have been successful in their appeal for awhile based on the newspaper dates of the different clips

February 2 1909
[IMG][/IMG]

In this clipping seeking investors from March 14 1911 Pets Cigarettes was being manufactured by The Oakland Tobacco Co.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Pat R]

It seems like some of the cigarette companies spent as much time in court as they did making cigarettes. Here's another case that involved Anargyros, Osias Maller, and Mentor the makers of Ramly Cigarettes.

August 2 1907
[IMG][/IMG]

They changed the name from Ramleh to Helmar "Ramleh spelled backwards" in April 1908

April 15 1908
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[teza11]

Greg,

Great research. Never mind my question. I figured it out.

Jeff

[sb1]

The Mentor Co.(Ramly, TTT and other cigarettes) led by Telemachus Thomas Timayenis, was involved in myriad of lawsuits between other cigarette manufacturers and the ATC as well. There are dozens of newspaper articles of the day documenting his feuds with them. Timayenis seemed to go out of his way to create issues for his various endeavors and was never shy to seek litigation or run from it.

[1880nonsports]

I remember seeing one of the ledgers at a national - a treasure for anyone interested in the history of production obviously.... GREAT thread - wishing I was on my way IN instead of mostly OUT.

[G1911]

It's been 11 months, which feels close enough to 12 for me to do my annual bump and see if anyone new sees and can point the way to this valuable book. I don't want to pester its owner to buy it, merely see the pages for the research wing of the hobby (which sure can't hurt its value!).

I've put together all my notes and documents to compile a book-length work on the E and T boxing cards. With my luck, I know this volume will finally surface for viewing and to help resolve our remaining mysteries and unknowns as soon as I call it finished and push it out there for dissemination...