Does anyone know Charles Litt?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by LEHR

I'm an honest seller and I've refused G&S payments from a few people simply because they seemed like a pain in the ass from the start. I don't want to deal with refunds or trying to get my items back if they decided to have buyers remorse.

So, if that buyer paid by F&F and he had a legitimate problem like a lost package, he would be shit out of luck?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Jim65

So, if that buyer paid by F&F and he had a legitimate problem like a lost package, he would be shit out of luck?

He would be out of luck in that PayPal wouldn’t step in and side with him. I pay with F&F all the time to people I know or know by reputation and am comfortable with it. If there was a legitimate problem, I think we would resolve it reasonably. I wouldn’t use F&F for somebody without a public hobby rep and was a stranger, but I don’t get an objection to using it in all card buying cases.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

He would be out of luck in that PayPal wouldn’t step in and side with him. I pay with F&F all the time to people I know or know by reputation and am comfortable with it. If there was a legitimate problem, I think we would resolve it reasonably. I wouldn’t use F&F for somebody without a public hobby rep and was a stranger, but I don’t get an objection to using it in all card buying cases.

I agree and do the same. I did use regular PP last night and would not have used F&F if they asked(they didn't) because it was a new member. Otherwise I have no problem with F&F.

On the flip side I have been screwed by a buyer wanting to use regular PP and promising to pay the fee and then not paying the fee. I guess I could have just canceled but I just considered it as a lesson learned with that buyer.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I agree and do the same. I did use regular PP last night and would not have used F&F if they asked(they didn't) because it was a new member. Otherwise I have no problem with F&F.

On the flip side I have been screwed by a buyer wanting to use regular PP and promising to pay the fee and then not paying the fee. I guess I could have just canceled but I just considered it as a lesson learned with that buyer.

In thousands of deals and trades, I've never really been screwed. A few eBay sellers have just never shipped the item, which is an easy refund from eBay. A seller has physically taped a rare card to the package (boy did that one hurt) and damaged it. One major dealer sent me the cards used in their Fair listings when I bought the G-VG ones and then blocked me after I politely requested a return. That's about it; never had a hiccup in any private deal yet. While scammers are replete, it seems most of them aren't very good at it and the odds that common sense will get you through a deal are very high. The vast majority in the collecting side of the hobby are pretty decent folk and not pulling anything. Never felt a need to use G&S for everything as a result, if someone insisted on it I would think it a red flag that they might be looking for a problem.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

He would be out of luck in that PayPal wouldn’t step in and side with him. I pay with F&F all the time to people I know or know by reputation and am comfortable with it. If there was a legitimate problem, I think we would resolve it reasonably. I wouldn’t use F&F for somebody without a public hobby rep and was a stranger, but I don’t get an objection to using it in all card buying cases.

PayPal has stepped in before to side with me and give me a refund when I paid with goods and services and the seller didn’t deliver. It’s usually a pain to go through the process, but it has worked for me before.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

PayPal has stepped in before to side with me and give me a refund when I paid with goods and services and the seller didn’t deliver. It’s usually a pain to go through the process, but it has worked for me before.

Yes, but we are talking about using F&F. I would be absolutely shocked if PayPal broke their policies to refund you for an F&F transaction.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by G1911

He would be out of luck in that PayPal wouldn’t step in and side with him.

I understand that. I'm just wondering what he would do if the package was legitimately lost. Honest sellers should refund on legitimate claims.

I was ripped off on another board by a longtime member with a stellar rep. I was out the money, I learned my lesson and I never pay by F&F anymore, to anyone. I pay G&S and pay the extra, the peace of mind is worth it. Sometimes, good people make bad choices.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I understand that. I'm just wondering what he would do if the package was legitimately lost. Honest sellers should refund on legitimate claims.

I was ripped off on another board by a longtime member with a stellar rep. I was out the money, I learned my lesson and I never pay by F&F anymore, to anyone. I pay G&S and pay the extra, the peace of mind is worth it. Sometimes, good people make bad choices.

You posited the buyer would be "shit out of luck", implying the board member would rip them off if this situation arose and an opportunity where they could rip them off transpired.

If you want to only do deals G&S, that's your call. One's peace of mind is worth a lot to them.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by G1911

You posited the buyer would be "shit out of luck", implying the board member would rip them off if this situation arose and an opportunity where they could rip them off transpired.

If you want to only do deals G&S, that's your call. One's peace of mind is worth a lot to them.

I can see why my question could be read differently but I was only asking if he would be shit out of luck, I wasn't implying or assuming he was. I think the question was fair since the poster said "I don't want to deal with refunds".

I've seen instances where a seller says they aren't responsible what happens after a package was sent or say the buyer should have asked for insurance. There can be differences of opinions between 2 well-meaning people, thats why I don't give up up my buyer protection. Once bitten, twice shy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I understand that. I'm just wondering what he would do if the package was legitimately lost. Honest sellers should refund on legitimate claims.

I was ripped off on another board by a longtime member with a stellar rep. I was out the money, I learned my lesson and I never pay by F&F anymore, to anyone. I pay G&S and pay the extra, the peace of mind is worth it. Sometimes, good people make bad choices.

That sucks. I guess I've been lucky, paid countless times by FF never had an issue, but that's a cautionary tale.

[hcv123]

1) A lot of great information, thoughts and opinions offered above
2) I think good judgment is first priority - If you are doing a transaction with someone that for whatever reason you trust - I don't see an issue with friends and family for both buyer and seller. Goods and services - Doing business with someone new or that you don't know - For the buyer - added peace of mind and "Paypal protection" if things go sideways. For the seller - added risk similar to the old Ebay days with the opportunity for false claims (curious if anyone has experienced this and could share a few details if so)

If I am at a show accepting Paypal I demand friends and family as my buyer is examining the product in hand and walking away with it - no reason for me to accept added risk of g&s.

Other than the in person scenario, I generally will list pricing either as "net" (Buyer expected to pay G&S fee) or "PPGS" (I pay the G&S fee).

I am deeply grateful to have had smooth transactions buying and selling across a range of price points and a large pool of buyers and sellers and all payment types - except 1 check - which is a crazy story for another day.

[LEHR]

Originally Posted by Jim65

So, if that buyer paid by F&F and he had a legitimate problem like a lost package, he would be shit out of luck?

Not at all. If there were a legitimate problem with delivery I'd happily refund the buyers money. Not everyone is out to screw everyone else. But I've also dealt with enough headache buyers in my day that if I don't feel 100% comfortable with a person/transaction then we will do it my way or not at all.