First under appreciated player that pops into your head

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by 67airborne

Harry Heilmann

Great pick. Heilmann definitely wasn't overlooked by his contemporaries, thankfully. I was incredibly fortunate to know several of his teammates and opponents; all spoke highly of his caliber of play and personal character.

Heck, even his autograph is overlooked and undervalued. There isn't very much signed material out there, and most of what survives isn't really aesthetically appealing. Lots of small cuts removed from album pages, or multi/team signed pages. It's really difficult to secure something nice on Heilmann; such items should be worth much more than they are. Similar HOFers from his era who died young in the same decade are common by comparison. The closest in comparison from standpoints of dying young in the 50's, rarity and finding a signed piece of any quality may be Arky Vaughan, but much more survived in the way of poor quality cuts. And of course, Heilmann was the better player of the two.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Great pick. Heilmann definitely wasn't overlooked by his contemporaries, thankfully. I was incredibly fortunate to know several of his teammates and opponents; all spoke highly of his caliber of play and personal character.

Heck, even his autograph is overlooked and undervalued. There isn't very much signed material out there, and most of what survives isn't really aesthetically appealing. Lots of small cuts removed from album pages, or multi/team signed pages. It's really difficult to secure something nice on Heilmann; such items should be worth much more than they are. Similar HOFers from his era who died young in the same decade are common by comparison. The closest in comparison from standpoints of dying young in the 50's, rarity and finding a signed piece of any quality may be Arky Vaughan, but much more survived in the way of poor quality cuts. And of course, Heilmann was the better player of the two.

I would disagree with that. I would take an OPS+ 136 shortstop who was good defensively over an OPS+ 148 outfielder who was not good defensively.

I don't understand all of the Hall of Famers in this thread. The only Hall of Famers that I would say are underrated are Johnny Mize, Arky Vaughan and Eddie Plank. 3 guys who were overlooked by the writers and had to wait too long for election. I am seeing a lot of names of players whose baseball cards are undervalued, but definitely not their careers.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'm definitely just judging by the way their contemporaries whom I knew spoke (or didn't speak) of them. When I visited all these players many years ago, I would tend to listen more than talk, letting them discuss whatever and whoever they wished for as long as they wished. I never wanted to interrupt the conversational flow. Heilmann was a man the older players would bring up on their own, and his talent was universally recollected with a great deal of respect. Vaughan was from the next generation down, and I got to know even more players from this era, including a significant number of his teammates. His name was barely mentioned, so perhaps he was overlooked by his own colleagues as well.

I certainly agree with your other point that there are a great deal of HOFers mentioned in this thread. Musial, Frank Robinson and Spahn have been brought up a lot. These guys were considered among the elite by those who saw them play. I'm not sure why anyone considers them overlooked based on their caliber of play. I'd agree on your assessment that this pertains more to card values.

[ClementeFanOh]

Someone above mentioned Larry Bowa, making a remark about Dave Concepcion. Bowa was a tool- period. He and Bud Harrelson are the same turd wearing different uniforms. Trent King

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I'm definitely just judging by the way their contemporaries whom I knew spoke (or didn't speak) of them. When I visited all these players many years ago, I would tend to listen more than talk, letting them discuss whatever and whoever they wished for as long as they wished. I never wanted to interrupt the conversational flow. Heilmann was a man the older players would bring up on their own, and his talent was universally recollected with a great deal of respect. Vaughan was from the next generation down, and I got to know even more players from this era, including a significant number of his teammates. His name was barely mentioned, so perhaps he was overlooked by his own colleagues as well.

I certainly agree with your other point that there are a great deal of HOFers mentioned in this thread. Musial, Frank Robinson and Spahn have been brought up a lot. These guys were considered among the elite by those who saw them play. I'm not sure why anyone considers them overlooked based on their caliber of play. I'd agree on your assessment that this pertains more to card values.

Heilmann was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1952 along with Paul Waner. The class before him was Jimmie Foxx and Mel Ott. Of those elected by the BBWAA before him, only Herb Pennock stands out as a worse player, although there are some others that I would rate slightly behind him. I have him at #66 on my list of top 100 players of all time. Maybe it is just me, but I think he is appriciated among true baseball fans along with many other HOFers mentioned in this thread.

After the original class of 5, the next first ballot HOFers were Bob Feller and Jackie Robinson, followed by Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Sandy Koufax, Roberto Clemente, Warren Spahn, Mickey Mantle, Ernie Banks, Willie Mays, Al Kaline, Bob Gibson, Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson. It seems like that is a pretty elite group of players.

[z28jd]

Charlie Ferguson. The guy put up 31.7 WAR in four seasons before passing away just after his 25th birthday. He won 30 games with a 1.98 ERA in 1886, then hit .337 with an .886 OPS in 1887. His final two seasons.

I thought his story was a little more well known, but the prices on his Old Judge cards are shockingly low for his story, leading me to believe not enough people know about him.

[smrtn240]

Gil Hodges