Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[Seven]

The Hall of Fame started on a downward spiral once the early stages of the corrupt Veteran's committee was put into place. So many of their selections are suspect, as they were busy trying to get their friends into the Hall of Fame.

I've also been very vocal about this, there are known cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Many people hold a "holier than thou" attitude about players, even if they so much as experimented with a pharmaceutical drug. Meanwhile Pud Galvin, Babe Ruth, and Mickey Mantle experimented with animal testosterone. Mays And Aaron took amphetamines at least once. And on that subject, God knows how many players were popping Greenies like they were M&M's in the clubhouse either, or high off of painkillers in order to pitch.

I don't want people citing character clauses either. Cap Ansons in the Hall of Fame, the guy that was probably responsible for segregating the game, Commiosner Landis is in, the man that upheld said segregation. It was rumored that Tris Speaker had ties to the KKK.

My point being, the Hall is a place that commemorates and celebrates the greatness of baseball. How these men achieved that greatness, or their dealings outside of the game of baseball should not matter. Voters can't play the moral police for one group of players but not another.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

The Hall of Fame started on a downward spiral once the early stages of the corrupt Veteran's committee was put into place. So many of their selections are suspect, as they were busy trying to get their friends into the Hall of Fame.

I've also been very vocal about this, there are known cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Many people hold a "holier than thou" attitude about players, even if they so much as experimented with a pharmaceutical drug. Meanwhile Pud Galvin, Babe Ruth, and Mickey Mantle experimented with animal testosterone. Mays And Aaron took amphetamines at least once. And on that subject, God knows how many players were popping Greenies like they were M&M's in the clubhouse either, or high off of painkillers in order to pitch.

I don't want people citing character clauses either. Cap Ansons in the Hall of Fame, the guy that was probably responsible for segregating the game, Commiosner Landis is in, the man that upheld said segregation. It was rumored that Tris Speaker had ties to the KKK.

My point being, the Hall is a place that commemorates and celebrates the greatness of baseball. How these men achieved that greatness, or their dealings outside of the game of baseball should not matter. Voters can't play the moral police for one group of players but not another.

It's a no win problem. If you ban anyone, there are inevitably going to be people who cheated below the radar who get in or people who are judged by a different standard, and it ends up an arbitrary unfair mess. If you just say fuck it let everyone in, you reward behavior that clearly broke the rules of the game and almost certainly secured an advantage over other players. Lose lose.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's a no win problem. If you ban anyone, there are inevitably going to be people who cheated below the radar who get in or people who are judged by a different standard, and it ends up an arbitrary unfair mess. If you just say fuck it let everyone in, you reward behavior that clearly broke the rules of the game and almost certainly secured an advantage over other players. Lose lose.

Unfortunately you're right, Peter. I agree with you. I did get a little ranty, my apologies!

[Misunderestimated]

Originally Posted by Seven View Post
The Hall of Fame started on a downward spiral once the early stages of the corrupt Veteran's committee was put into place. So many of their selections are suspect, as they were busy trying to get their friends into the Hall of Fame.

I've also been very vocal about this, there are known cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Many people hold a "holier than thou" attitude about players, even if they so much as experimented with a pharmaceutical drug. Meanwhile Pud Galvin, Babe Ruth, and Mickey Mantle experimented with animal testosterone. Mays And Aaron took amphetamines at least once. And on that subject, God knows how many players were popping Greenies like they were M&M's in the clubhouse either, or high off of painkillers in order to pitch.

I don't want people citing character clauses either. Cap Ansons in the Hall of Fame, the guy that was probably responsible for segregating the game, Commiosner Landis is in, the man that upheld said segregation. It was rumored that Tris Speaker had ties to the KKK.

My point being, the Hall is a place that commemorates and celebrates the greatness of baseball. How these men achieved that greatness, or their dealings outside of the game of baseball should not matter. Voters can't play the moral police for one group of players but not another.


Peter_Spaeth:
It's a no win problem. If you ban anyone, there are inevitably going to be people who cheated below the radar who get in or people who are judged by a different standard, and it ends up an arbitrary unfair mess. If you just say fuck it let everyone in, you reward behavior that clearly broke the rules of the game and almost certainly secured an advantage over other players. Lose lose.
*****************
Yeah this is pretty much where I come out. I do think Schilling presents a peculiar problem -- he should be a HOFer but I fear his induction ceremony would be bad for the institution (the HOF) and even the major leagues. His speech would likely be provocative in ways that could really damage the institution. I don't just mean complaining about the process or saying "its about time." I'm not talking about just saying things that just aren't "PC." I fear bona fide hate speech.
But I guess the institution could survive a PR disaster and maybe .
I also don't think Pete Rose cuts it so long as he faces a lifetime ban. (after that -- his demise -- you can put him in and I guess Shoeless Joe and Eddie Cicotte too)
I would urge that the plaques not whitewash things too much for guys like AROD, Palmeiro, and Manny Ramirez who have been found to have cheated. To me they are different from Bonds, Clemens and Sosa who are all-but-universally considered to have used PEDs but were not "found guilty" by baseball.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Seven

The Hall of Fame started on a downward spiral once the early stages of the corrupt Veteran's committee was put into place. So many of their selections are suspect, as they were busy trying to get their friends into the Hall of Fame.

I've also been very vocal about this, there are known cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Many people hold a "holier than thou" attitude about players, even if they so much as experimented with a pharmaceutical drug. Meanwhile Pud Galvin, Babe Ruth, and Mickey Mantle experimented with animal testosterone. Mays And Aaron took amphetamines at least once. And on that subject, God knows how many players were popping Greenies like they were M&M's in the clubhouse either, or high off of painkillers in order to pitch.

I don't want people citing character clauses either. Cap Ansons in the Hall of Fame, the guy that was probably responsible for segregating the game, Commiosner Landis is in, the man that upheld said segregation. It was rumored that Tris Speaker had ties to the KKK.

My point being, the Hall is a place that commemorates and celebrates the greatness of baseball. How these men achieved that greatness, or their dealings outside of the game of baseball should not matter. Voters can't play the moral police for one group of players but not another.

Classic false equivalence/two wrongs make a right fallacy. One past mistake does not legitimize all future mistakes. A concrete example: I am driving down the road minding my own business doing a steady 85 just like everyone else and I get pulled over. Do I get to skate on the ticket because everyone else was speeding too? Nope. Other speeders are not a defense to my conduct. The fact that the HOF has a number of miscreants in it does not justify voting for another one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Classic false equivalence/two wrongs make a right fallacy. One past mistake does not legitimize all future mistakes. A concrete example: I am driving down the road minding my own business doing a steady 85 just like everyone else and I get pulled over. Do I get to skate on the ticket because everyone else was speeding too? Nope. Other speeders are not a defense to my conduct. The fact that the HOF has a number of miscreants in it does not justify voting for another one.

It's also a slippery slope fallacy. Since you can point to imperfect results with the existing system, the whole system is invalid.

[packs]

Just because some people get in who aren’t HOFers doesn’t mean the HOF is on a downward spiral. It’s still the hardest HOF to get into. Only about 1 percent of all players over the last 150 years are elected to it. If you have a one percent chance of getting into the baseball HOF it’s doing it’s job.