Indians/Guardians and the Topps History Police

[JustinD]

My first wife was native Chippewa, and as such my son is native and a member of the tribe as well. I can certainly see the benefit of reaching out to local tribes to establish relationships but not erasing Indian imagery in some misguided white savior move. I spent his childhood at tribal events to build his knowledge of culture with powwows and celebrating the traditions.

His tribe has a partnership with Central Michigan College as they are the Chippewas. I honestly have never personally heard anyone at the tribe discuss any concerns with mascots other than this older article here supporting them used positively when asked -

https://www.mlive.com/news/bay-city/...w_chippew.html

As an addendum to this article, the local school district was indeed forced to change their Warrior logo to the chagrin of the tribe in the end that took pride in that representation. The federal government threatened to withhold school funding for the mascot that they deemed offensive on behalf of the tribe who were financially donating to the sports program to support the mascot.

What I found shocking was this quote in a similar article on the mascot forced change from a press release by the Michigan Department of Civil Rights:

stated a press release from MDCR. “Continued use of American Indian mascots, names, nicknames, logos, slogans, chants and/or other imagery creates a hostile environment and denies equal rights to all current and future American Indian students and must therefore cease. ... Because there is now, for the first time, an objective showing that actual harm is resulting and that it disparately falls on American Indian students, there is no longer any need to question what the school, or what the ‘reasonable American Indian’ thinks about the mascot.”

Yep, that just shut down any American Indian that would disagree with their purity plan by disavowing their opinion because any “reasonable American Indian” would of course agree with them.

[packs]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic when people say things like "changing the team name erases Native American culture".

Erasing Native American culture has been government sanctioned since there was a government to put those policies into place. And Native American culture isn't derived from professional sports teams either. There are much more meaningful ways of protecting the culture.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by packs

Am I the only one who finds it ironic when people say things like "changing the team name erases Native American culture".

Erasing Native American culture has been government sanctioned since there was a government to put those policies into place. And Native American culture isn't derived from professional sports teams either. There are much more meaningful ways of protecting the culture.

Who are you quoting?

[packs]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Who are you quoting?

A common argument put forward by people who are generally against changing the names of teams.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Who are you quoting?

Originally Posted by packs

A common argument put forward by people who are generally against changing the names of teams.

Is it possible that some Tribes take pride in a local team with a Native American team name? Yes. I know tribes in North Dakota were supportive of their NCAA FCS team winning football championships. They were disappointed when NDSU had to become the Buffalos. And the Spokane Indians are an amazing extension of the local tribe for MiLB. Many in the local tribe would be disappointed if the team name changed.

But are there other tribes that hate team names like Savages and caricatures like Chief Wahoo? Yes. Those are racist stereotypes that don't do anything positive or uplifting.

We just need to remember that region to region, and tribe to tribe, Native American opinions about mascots change on how they are represented. And that's okay.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by packs

A common argument put forward by people who are generally against changing the names of teams.

Ok apologies, I took it as a misrepresentation of what I was saying. Happy I asked.

I was only discussing my experiences living in a mixed family. I am sure they are different than many and assume that everyone will and should have many other thoughts, beliefs, and opinions.

[packs]

No sorry about that. It was a tangent. I appreciated the perspective in your post.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by JustinD

My first wife was native Chippewa, and as such my son is native and a member of the tribe as well. I can certainly see the benefit of reaching out to local tribes to establish relationships but not erasing Indian imagery in some misguided white savior move. I spent his childhood at tribal events to build his knowledge of culture with powwows and celebrating the traditions.

Originally Posted by packs

Am I the only one who finds it ironic when people say things like "changing the team name erases Native American culture".

Erasing Native American culture has been government sanctioned since there was a government to put those policies into place. Advocates for protecting the culture should be concerned with protections outside of professional sports names. There's a lot more good that can be done if you're interested in getting involved.

If you, your wife, or son are interested in Native American history classes, I found these classes on Native American history to be really interesting. I took these to renew my teaching certificate in WA State. They try to be a survey of history across the entire US; but in each hour they zoom in on a particular story. They are $40 each, each including something like 10-15 hours of college professor seminars. They are produced by Gilder Lehrman which works closely with the AP US History program. The Case Studies is taught by a professor at Dartmouth, and the Recasting one is taught by a Native American professor at Yale. I liked the Case Studies one better - I thought the professor was a bit more organized - but they are both good. The last two/three hours in each course try to focus on 20th century changes that try to explain current lobbying by tribes around the country. The professors also make distinctions how tribes in the Northeast have a very different relationship with state governments than tribes in the Midwest, or Tribes in the West. They also try to discuss the ebb and flow of support or lack of support by the Supreme Court. Each class also lightly covers the Civil Rights Era activism by Native Americans - such as occupying Alcatraz.

Case Studies: https://www.gilderlehrman.org/node/500051/spc

Recasting: https://www.gilderlehrman.org/node/500052/spc