Are grading companies giving out 8 grades or higher on cards pre 1960 anymore?

[Snowman]

I agree that the mechanisms pointed out above by Bob are likely culprits. But it is becoming a serious problem for the vintage side of the hobby. Modern is easy to grade. No flaws? Then 10. Nearly flawless? Then 9. And slowly demote from there. Modern cards almost never grade below an 8 unless it was damaged somehow.

I don't believe it's intentional or some sort of pop control effort or anything like that, but these guys have now moved the goalposts on us by two full grades. That's unacceptable. It would be great if we could figure out a way to prove to Nat that this is in fact happening and that it's not just some hobby conspiracy theory being peddled by sour grapes. With some effort, it can be irrifutably proven, but getting him to listen is the challenge

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't believe it's intentional or some sort of pop control effort or anything like that, but these guys have now moved the goalposts on us by two full grades.

I certainly was not suggesting there was anything intentional. In fact quite the opposite. The graders' frame of reference has changed more dramatically in the last two years than in the 10 preceding years. Vintage has always made up a minority at least in volume of what is submitted.

Originally Posted by Snowman

. It would be great if we could figure out a way to prove to Nat that this is in fact happening and that it's not just some hobby conspiracy theory being peddled by sour grapes. With some effort, it can be irrifutably proven, but getting him to listen is the challenge

I don't think Nat is in denial but I think he might not be aware. Or he simply many not care that the graders are applying a two grade deduction for vintage. PSA is a business for him and as a great businessman, you are not going to spend time and money fixing something which is not broken. I am sure vintage submissions are not down, materially, as a result of their harsh grading standards.

I think if the matter were brought to his attention in a non confrontational manner with lots of evidence there is a chance he would attempt to correct the issue.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I don't think Nat is in denial but I think he might not be aware. Or he simply many not care that the graders are applying a two grade deduction for vintage. PSA is a business for him and as a great businessman, you are not going to spend time and money fixing something which is not broken. I am sure vintage submissions are not down, materially, as a result of their harsh grading standards.

I think if the matter were brought to his attention in a non confrontational manner with lots of evidence there is a chance he would attempt to correct the issue.

I do think he is in denial though. Or at least he presents that way publicly. He laughs it off and excuses it away every time it gets brought up in interviews. He blames it on submitters being noobs/ignorant and essentially engages in condescension frisbee with his customer base. I like Nat for the most part, but it's a bad look. He's not listening to his customers.

Perhaps he could be persuaded if the situation were right and the data was well presented. But setting that table in the first place and getting him to join you is the challenge.