Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[Mike D.]

And I will say, even if you avoided the hall of plagues on principle, the Hall if still a pretty amazing place to visit. Highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't been!

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

And I will say, even if you avoided the hall of plagues on principle, the Hall if still a pretty amazing place to visit. Highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't been!

I went two months ago. I stood at this wall for 10 minutes just staring

[mattsey9]

Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by mattsey9

Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

I hope so.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by mattsey9

Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

Along with Manny and ARod. No way the writers are putting them in and looks like the will do even worse once they are on any of the committee ballots.

[Misunderestimated]

Originally Posted by mattsey9 View Post
Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

-----
It certainly doesn't bode well for them but some other group of 16 "committee members" could feel differently. This group was stacked against them -- voters like Sandberg Thomas and Morris who were on the record as despising any and all alleged PED users.
As some have suggested the proper remedy is to have a committee tasked with assessing "PED/Selig era" players make some sort of informed recommendations.
I find the sanctimoniousness of the voters on this issue a bit much at times. It's not like the Hall of Fame has ever been populated by those who were above cheating and taking advantage of loopholes to play their best and win at whatever cost.
Go back to Pud Galvin and his primitive PEDs....
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...her-of-juicing
... This week the great Gaylord Perry passed. He is all-but-celebrated for cheating (being called "crafty" which is admirable). I think Perry is a HOFer but what did Barry Bonds do that makes him so much worse.? He (allegedly I am compelled to write) unknowingly took "supplements" that enabled him to work out harder, prolong an already great career and commit the sin of being so damn good that he virtually obliterated the record books.
Likely David Ortiz did much the same (to a lesser degree and with less stunning results). But people like the beloved "Big Papi" and not the surly Bonds. I fear that to a degree that's really what's going on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

Originally Posted by mattsey9 View Post
Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

-----
It certainly doesn't bode well for them but some other group of 16 "committee members" could feel differently. This group was stacked against them -- voters like Sandberg Thomas and Morris who were on the record as despising any and all alleged PED users.
As some have suggested the proper remedy is to have a committee tasked with assessing "PED/Selig era" players make some sort of informed recommendations.
I find the sanctimoniousness of the voters on this issue a bit much at times. It's not like the Hall of Fame has ever been populated by those who were above cheating and taking advantage of loopholes to play their best and win at whatever cost.
Go back to Pud Galvin and his primitive PEDs....
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...her-of-juicing
... This week the great Gaylord Perry passed. He is all-but-celebrated for cheating (being called "crafty" which is admirable). I think Perry is a HOFer but what did Barry Bonds do that makes him so much worse.? He (allegedly I am compelled to write) unknowingly took "supplements" that enabled him to work out harder, prolong an already great career and commit the sin of being so damn good that he virtually obliterated the record books.
Likely David Ortiz did much the same (to a lesser degree and with less stunning results). But people like the beloved "Big Papi" and not the surly Bonds. I fear that to a degree that's really what's going on.

Did people see the recent Willie Mays documentary? The surly Barry Bonds was quite affable.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

Originally Posted by mattsey9 View Post
Regardless of one's perspective on Bonds, Clemens, Palmiero, Sosa, etc., this vote was the death knell for their HOF chances.

-----
It certainly doesn't bode well for them but some other group of 16 "committee members" could feel differently. This group was stacked against them -- voters like Sandberg Thomas and Morris who were on the record as despising any and all alleged PED users.
As some have suggested the proper remedy is to have a committee tasked with assessing "PED/Selig era" players make some sort of informed recommendations.
I find the sanctimoniousness of the voters on this issue a bit much at times. It's not like the Hall of Fame has ever been populated by those who were above cheating and taking advantage of loopholes to play their best and win at whatever cost.
Go back to Pud Galvin and his primitive PEDs....
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...her-of-juicing
... This week the great Gaylord Perry passed. He is all-but-celebrated for cheating (being called "crafty" which is admirable). I think Perry is a HOFer but what did Barry Bonds do that makes him so much worse.? He (allegedly I am compelled to write) unknowingly took "supplements" that enabled him to work out harder, prolong an already great career and commit the sin of being so damn good that he virtually obliterated the record books.
Likely David Ortiz did much the same (to a lesser degree and with less stunning results). But people like the beloved "Big Papi" and not the surly Bonds. I fear that to a degree that's really what's going on.

I wonder if this is why McGwire was not part of this current contemporary group. When this committee next meets, maybe they can then easily ignore Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero and leave them off the next ballot for consideration since they did so poorly this time, and instead put someone like McGwire up for consideration in their place. That way even more time has passed, and maybe there aren't as many selection committee members in the next group that are so vehemently against any PED use whatsoever. Wouldn't put it past the powers that be to do something like that to possibly give McGwire a better chance.

Had they included McGwire in this current contemporary group being considered, alongside Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero, can definitely see that killing his chances as some committee members would not likely ever vote for McGwire, while not voting for any of the others, without them being somewhat perceived as hypocrites.

[Misunderestimated]

Posted by BobC: I wonder if this is why McGwire was not part of this current contemporary group. When this committee next meets, maybe they can then easily ignore Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero and leave them off the next ballot for consideration since they did so poorly this time, and instead put someone like McGwire up for consideration in their place. That way even more time has passed, and maybe there aren't as many selection committee members in the next group that are so vehemently against any PED use whatsoever. Wouldn't put it past the powers that be to do something like that to possibly give McGwire a better chance.

Had they included McGwire in this current contemporary group being considered, alongside Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero, can definitely see that killing his chances as some committee members would not likely ever vote for McGwire, while not voting for any of the others, without them being somewhat perceived as hypocrites.

========
Yeah it does make sense. I mean why slate Palmeiro and not McGwire and (to a lesser extent) Sosa who are both "liked" ? Sosa and McGwire both outpolled Raffy as recall. The ballot construction is very suspect.
My guess is that Schilling doesn't get votes because people are (legitimately) afraid that he will embarrass the HOF or at least create unnecessary controversies in his induction speech

Peter -- I did see the Mays documentary that presents a very affable and admirable Bonds. It had has even been criticized as "Bonds propaganda" because Mays so clearly wants Bonds (his godson) to be appreciated and to be in the HOF.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BobC

I wonder if this is why McGwire was not part of this current contemporary group. When this committee next meets, maybe they can then easily ignore Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero and leave them off the next ballot for consideration since they did so poorly this time, and instead put someone like McGwire up for consideration in their place. That way even more time has passed, and maybe there aren't as many selection committee members in the next group that are so vehemently against any PED use whatsoever. Wouldn't put it past the powers that be to do something like that to possibly give McGwire a better chance.

Had they included McGwire in this current contemporary group being considered, alongside Bonds, Clemens, and Palmiero, can definitely see that killing his chances as some committee members would not likely ever vote for McGwire, while not voting for any of the others, without them being somewhat perceived as hypocrites.

The one thing I give McGwire credit for is not lying about it. He came clean and didn't implicate anybody else. It was good to see a player owning it and not trying to convince everyone (especially the US congress) otherwise.

I hope McGwire makes it before those other PED players that tried to make us all believe it was their natural ability. Funny how that ability only lasted for all of them during the same time period.

Nothing wrong with being a nice guy. Look at Mariano Rivera, obviously the ultimate nice guy. The first and only 100% first ballot vote getter. I still have a difficult time trying to figure out how some players were not 100% vote recipients.

Someone mentioned Papi and PEDs. Well, what's that tell you? Papi wasn't an ass to the press.

Look at Ted Williams, he wasn't a "press" darling yet they at least had enough respect to vote him with about 93.4% of the vote (oh yeah, no PEDs for Ted).