Where is the second ledger of T cards?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

Bien produced a map for the Interior Department showing the "regions producing the principal types of tobacco" as part of the tenth census, which would have been a few years before the Buchner cards. https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0

An 1898 edition of Profitable Advertising (https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0) reports:

"The well-known lithographic house of Julius Bien & Co., New York, lately executed one million sheets for the American Tobacco Company. It is easier for the average person to state this fact than it is for him to comprehend the size of such an order, or the amount of labor involved in executing the same".

In 1912, Bien & co. patented a number of cigar brands I am not familiar with, listed on page 691 here; https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover. They appear in other annual reports recording their rights to slogans and names for other non-tobacco products.

They appear to have had financial issues with creditors in 1914, that made its way to the New York Supreme Court. A single creditor claimed over $65,000 owed to him. Companies assets were assessed at about $39,000. Perhaps one of our lawyers may make better work of this than I. https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover. It seems at this time Bien's son and namesake and a Franklin Bien, who may be another son, were running the show. Included in the records are plenty of itemized jobs and payments to Liggett & Myers, for cigar labels, "dancing inserts" and more. Some single tobacco jobs netted as much as $22,500, which is a lot of money for a print job in 1914. It is a lengthy read, and I have not read the entire text yet.

It seems clear and evident this firm had deep relationships in the tobacco industry and decades of partnering with the leading tobacco firms.

Fullgraff worked directly for American Lithography, Brett, Bien, and American Tobacco at different points in the 1890's-1910's. He seems to have continued to do business with all of them before and after his direct employments, a cross-industry project manager and networker for whom what we might now call conflicts of interest seem to have been his desirable asset.

I think a lot of people in the hobby don't realize how big the tobacco card printings were at the time and I'm not talking about just T206's, that's one of the things we have learned from these ledgers/albums. I also think there is a misconception about some of the changes that were made in these sets, in general there are far more changes that could have been made that weren't than changes that were made. I think the ones that were made were because they were done at an opportune time like a change over to another series or another facility. I don't believe they would stop in the middle of these huge projects to make a change because a player was on a different team or something similar.

Hopefully we can eventually get more information on the other pages that were in this register book.

A friend has an old album that he sent me to look through and the colors on the cards are amazing unfortunately my photography skills are not.

Here are a few of the pages if I remember there were 50-60 pages left in the album when he got it but most of the baseball and other sports cards were removed before he got it.

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[G1911]

Following up on the Turkey Red's, they may not have been actually issued to the public until very early 1910 or late 1909. From the January 5, 1910 edition of the United States Tobacco Journal, there will be "much work" in introducing the brand, unclear if this is literally introducing it or if it more refers to getting it to catch on. It is paired with Fez, Murad and Trophy cigarettes in the ATC's departmental territories. Fez is one of the valid brands for coupons for T3, and the T6 cabinets from Murad are a very similar idea. Trophy was another Turning brand and issued T57. There are a lot of connections between which brands were paired with which other brands in the ATC's departments and the card sets, but I don't believe most of it has been posted before. Apologies if it has and I missed it.

[G1911]

3 days later, in the January 8 edition, there is further confirmation of a January 1910 launch of Turkey Red. The price was a bit higher than other brands to retailers.

Same article has some interesting data on the 1st district Ohio output, over 43 million pounds of tobacco in 1909 alone from it (factory 6 was there).

[G1911]

The Canadian Patent Office Record tells us that Turkey Red and its advertising style was registered by Imperial Tobacco April 2, 1910. Piedmont was registered the same time. Some of these American baseball issues may have been issued north of the border for some period. Not clear there is much evidence here.

[G1911]

Not offered particularly cheap, the price was increased very quickly. It's up to $7.50 per thousand (and sold 10 for 10 cents to consumers, i.e.; 25% of the money to the store, 75% to the ATC) by early February.

Also by February, it is being labelled as a S. Anagyros brand, which seems to be one of the front companies used to duck regulators. Turkey Red part is the fifth paragraph on this page.

The Fez brand was launched at a similar time and appears in many notices alongside Turkey Red (the primary issuer of T79 and known to the non-sports collectors). Other sources suggest it was positioned as a 'healthy' brand for smoking. Turkish blends contained suluk which contained opium (or so I read) and was thought to cause some throat irritation in smokers. Fez removed the suluk, (T.P.'s Weekly; November 4, 1910 issue) with Turkey Red apparently a brand still containing suluk alongside the older ATC Turkish brands. Something tells me Fez smokers still had health problems.

[G1911]

By March 26, the price seems to remain high but stores ordering are given 8 free packs of Helmar and Turkish Trophies, upping their percentage of the take a little bit if they sold out.

These early packs had coupons, and at least some T37's. T72 came to replace T37 and was issued alongside it. T48 was the final pack inserted Turkey Red cards in late 1910. After that it seems to have been a coupon only affair. I'm not clear how early coupons used for the cabinet cards may have been issued; they may have pre-dated the printing of the premiums they could be redeemed for by a bit.

[G1911]

The April 9th edition notes that Turkey Red matches are being sent out by the "Metropolitan Tobacco Co." to "boost the cigarette of this name". Originally it is pretty openly an ATC brand, but is now on it's second front company after just 4 months. No wonder the 1909-1911 federal report on the monopoly is over a thousand pages.