Death of private sales for higher end cards?

[parkplace33]

Pete’s recent post about auctions got me thinking:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=327808

Are all higher end nice eye appeal cards (let’s say valued 10,000 dollars and above) just going straight to Auction Houses for sale and not even being considered selling privately?

I tend to think so. Consider this…. You want a 1933 Goudey Ruth, card 144, graded 7. You have the means to buy it (it’s a 6 figure card). I don’t think in this day and age you could buy that card privately. I think most collectors and sellers see the auction house prices and are automatically drawn to them.

Now maybe the above card example is extreme, but I think it goes for higher end cards closer to that 10k mark as well. Am I way off base here? I would love to hear thoughts/experiences on this topic.

[Johnny630]

I think this happens less and less these days however I will say the good private sales, collector to collector are not talked about they're kept private as they should be. Some people like the cold hard cash!!

I like it :-)

[raulus]

I would posit that it still happens. Sometimes with a bit of help from an intermediary, who is matching up the buyer and seller, and probably taking a smaller cut than an auction.

I suspect that the attraction for both sides is certainty.

Maybe the seller gives up a little potential upside, but locks in a known sales price that works for the seller, while avoiding the risk that it doesn’t get as much attention at auction.

For the buyer, you avoid the risk of having goons bid it up to the stratosphere at auction, and you get your nice piece for a price that works for you, without all of the drama of the auction process. Maybe you have to stretch a little, but maybe for the right piece, you’re willing to stretch.

[BKaufmann14]

You have too much time on your hands to post these videos... lol

[notfast]

Nope.

I have no desire to use a third party to sell things that I don’t need a third party to sell.

I’m sure many others feel the same.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by BKaufmann14

You have too much time on your hands to post these videos... lol

No video on this one, just a reference to another Net54 post

[mrreality68]

The hardest part to me with private sales is my network is not big enough so I do not know about what is available for sale often times until it is to late.

I hear about transactions or see them posted by the buyer after it is bought/traded.

The network I have is mostly collectors and as a result they are less like to sell and more likely to hold on to.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In a world of so many record setting prices, I think many sellers are afraid to leave money on the table. Many of the pricier cards one sees on bst just came out of an auction and are marked up by a third, so no fear there.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In a world of so many record setting prices, I think many sellers are afraid to leave money on the table. Many of the pricier cards one sees on bst just came out of an auction and are marked up by a third, so no fear there.

Peter - do you feel like the action might shift once the auction market returns to some semblance of normalcy? Assuming it ever does?

[G1911]

All my larger deals have been private sales, usually in network or via referral. I think it varies heavily by item, a common commodity card with a lot of value like a T206 Cobb or a Goudey Ruth or a 52 Mickey, auctions make a lot more sense for the seller because everyone wants those and you'll get many bidders anywhere. My larger buys are scarce and oft obscure cards from niche interests, boxing, non-sport, as well as baseball. Placing a value is difficult; auctions can go for triple what I'd expect or a 1/3 very easily with such a small buyer pool. On these items, the ones I personally spend the most on, it is often an item that is not really for sale in the first place, and an offer greater than the seller would expect to net from auction is what makes a deal of any kind possible. It seems like a win to me for both sides; I lock up a tough item I'm after without risking it going to an auction house I won't do business with or I'm acquiring a unique type item that isn't for sale any other way, the seller also locks in a good price for them and eliminates the risk the handful of buyers willing to go for it might not show up that day and doesn't have to share the pie with anyone else but Uncle Sam. It also makes larger lots easier to move; the risk factor being removed multiplies via private sale.

[Rhotchkiss]

Based on personal experience, private sales/purchase for higher-end cards are very much alive and well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Peter - do you feel like the action might shift once the auction market returns to some semblance of normalcy? Assuming it ever does?

I would hope so, I mean maybe as a consignor you're not giving up the full 20 percent to the house because you made a deal but you're sure giving up something that you would keep in a private deal. I can still see it on truly elite cards, but on cards that are essentially commodities, not sure it's the most profitable outcome most of the time for a seller. It just seems to be reflexive for a lot of guys.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Pete’s recent post about auctions got me thinking:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=327808

Are all higher end nice eye appeal cards (let’s say valued 10,000 dollars and above) just going straight to Auction Houses for sale and not even being considered selling privately?

I tend to think so. Consider this…. You want a 1933 Goudey Ruth, card 144, graded 7. You have the means to buy it (it’s a 6 figure card). I don’t think in this day and age you could buy that card privately. I think most collectors and sellers see the auction house prices and are automatically drawn to them.

Now maybe the above card example is extreme, but I think it goes for higher end cards closer to that 10k mark as well. Am I way off base here? I would love to hear thoughts/experiences on this topic.

High end cards are VERY available privately including a PSA 8 Ruth (see attached scan). You can see a bunch of other cards for sale here:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUNE3wX

Contact me to discuss details once you have selected the one(s) you want.

[raulus]

I'll add one more observation. A few years ago, in chatting with a major auction house, they mentioned that most of their activity is actually in brokering private sales. At least dollar-wise, if not sheer number of pieces sold.

From what I gathered from that discussion, part of the story here is that a lot of these pieces are often well into 6 and even 7 figures price point. So it's some nice stuff going through these private off-market sales.

An example they gave at the time was a 1952T PSA 9 Mays that they helped broker for $750K. I've also seen some publicity pieces suggesting that other items were similarly brokered/sold by auction houses for 6 or 7 figures in off-market transactions.

Now, it's entirely possible that the market has shifted, particularly in the last year, with sellers opting to go through the auction process to get buyers bidding everything up to the stratosphere. And if you can get the auction house to add in a few extensions (days or weeks) to the bidding timeline, then the sky's the limit! Maybe today those off-market sales aren't as prominent as previously. But I wouldn't be surprised if they're still happening for those really premium items that command a major fortune, simply because those pieces in some cases might never really be offered for sale, but an owner might be enticed to give it up by an auction house, if the auction house has already found the right buyer at the right price.

Add to that, our friends at Heritage have a feature on their website where you can make an offer on an item previously sold through their auctions. Over the last few years, I've received several offers for items that I picked up at previous Heritage auctions. My recollection is that Heritage takes a smaller cut than usual for these sales (maybe 10% or 15%), although it's not nothing. I've never actually sold anything this way, but I suspect that there are probably some deals getting done this way, at least if the offer isn't just some crackpot lowball offer, which tends to be a lot of what I have received.

[Snowman]

In my experience, it depends on the card and your reach. I've done some 5-figure private sales, but not a ton of them. Most of the buyers who frequent places where you could sell outisde of a major auction house, places like Facebook, B/S/T here, Instagram, etc., are trafficked by buyers who are looking to score a deal. They're mostly bargain shoppers who are looking to save on eBay fees. As such, they are generally content with lower-end copies of high-end cards. So if you have a 311 Mantle with some creases and a pinhole on it, it's a great way to transact it. The market is pretty well settled on what that card might bring at auction, and nobody gets surprised when the hammer drops. Same with SGC 1.5 Goudey Ruths or a low-end green Cobb.

The challenge with transacting directly, in my experience, is more with cards that have tremendous eye-appeal for the grade. Those cards have a much wider distribution of what buyers are willing to pay for them. Those are the cards that can have shocking (to some) hammer prices at auction. Put up an off-centered 311 Mantle in a PSA 3 holder with obvious surface wear and a small crease, and everyone knows what it will fetch. But put one up in the same grade that's dead-centered with no surface flaws and just some slightly soft corners and it will easily fetch 2x what the other one sells for, and sometimes even 3x. But if you try to sell this privately, you'll just have a bunch of bargain hunters wasting your time trying to buy it for whatever "comps" sell for (they don't know how to comp). It's a lot of work. I only collect cards with high eye-appeal, so I encounter this often. Everyone wants my copies of cards, but most aren't willing to pay what it actually takes to get them. They want that 2x-comp eye-appeal card for 1x price, or maybe 1.1x.

[Lorewalker]

I have no experience in the private sales area of the hobby as a buyer or seller however I know several who are buying and selling in that manner. I would say that sector of the hobby is still as healthy as ever especially for the higher priced cards or items which are considered more scarce. I think auction houses still see more of that type of material because most either do not know how to reach a buyer or seller and the auction house is a more convenient method to transact business.

[Exhibitman]

Isn't private selling just a euphemism for selling other than by auction? I've sold a lot of stuff privately, usually starting with an unsolicited offer for an item I own.

I balance money on the table versus not handing an AH a cut of the action. After all, 100% of $100 is the same as 80% of $120.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Isn't private selling just a euphemism for selling other than by auction? I've sold a lot of stuff privately, usually starting with an unsolicited offer for an item I own.

I balance money on the table versus not handing an AH a cut of the action. After all, 100% of $100 is the same as 80% of $120.

Not quite Adam, but we get your point:

The first is $100.
The second is $96.

[drcy]

For those who require a video

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Not quite Adam, but we get your point:

The first is $100.
The second is $96.

Heh, my bad. What I meant was that a $100 private sale is the same net to me as a zero commission $120 auction result because of the 20% BP.

Falco, wow, haven't thought of him in a while. Poor bastard got hit by a bus.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Based on personal experience, private sales/purchase for higher-end cards are very much alive and well.

I should say so.