Ebay Authentication - It Gets Personal

[obcmac]

I also recently had a not-so-great experience with the program. It was as a seller though. I sold a card...just listed what the card was and said see scans for condition. Somehow ebay (CSG) decided I didn't accurately represent the card and they were sending it back to me??? The money never made it to me, so I didn't handle the refund.

Mac

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because they are interfering in a transaction between two parties who want to do the deal, I think. Their assessment is correct, but no one involved in the deal cares what they think, but their deal is nixed because an unwanted third party arbitrarily says they can't do the deal. I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I see the sentiment.

That is on ebay, not CSG.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Something isn't right here. If the card was really rejected, EBay would have refunded your money. Greg saying he refunded is not how this works.

If EBay didn't refund you and you never received an email from Ebay saying the card failed, I'd question whether it really was sent to Authentication at all.

I am not confident we have all the facts. John was already wrong about PSA rejecting it.

[prestigecollectibles]

I just won this raw card from Greg Morris.

Title was "1911 T205 Gold Border Set-Break Johnny Evers Sweet Caporal LOW GRADE (crease)"

I shouldn't have any problems with this going through CSG.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am not confident we have all the facts. John was already wrong about PSA rejecting it.

The OP said Greg sent him an email saying PSA rejected it. If Greg said that, that casts even more doubt on him.

Im not accusing Greg of anything, Ive always received good service from him but there is definately something not right here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

The OP said Greg sent him an email saying PSA rejected it. If Greg said that, that casts even more doubt on him.

Im not accusing Greg of anything, Ive always received good service from him but there is definately something not right here.

Agree it makes no sense, because that email I presume would have come from ebay saying your item failed authentication. Something not adding up, that is for sure.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That is on ebay, not CSG.

That does not seem to be true. CSG is still a meddling party, and it is their arbitrary choice. They can reach out to the buyer, as others have described having happened, or they can just kill a deal nobody wants to have killed. They are meddling because eBay paid them too and that’s their role, but the call to kill a deal or reach out to the buyer is their choice. They are responsible for it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

That does not seem to be true. CSG is still a meddling party, and it is their arbitrary choice. They can reach out to the buyer, as others have described having happened, or they can just kill a deal nobody wants to have killed. They are meddling because eBay paid them too and that’s their role, but the call to kill a deal or reach out to the buyer is their choice. They are responsible for it.

Maybe they only reach out to the buyer if it is a minor issue/discrepancy.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe they only reach out to the buyer if it is a minor issue/discrepancy.

You do have to wonder what parameters and limitations eBay has placed on CSG and PSA around the authentication program.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe they only reach out to the buyer if it is a minor issue/discrepancy.

Which is their choice, clearly eBay allows them to reach out and they could. Many would argue this is a minor issue.

Even if eBay didn’t allow them too, people are still going to face some judgement for the things they do, especially by the person that is losing because of it. The party on the far end of the chain of responsibility is not the only one who is or can reasonably be accountable for what they do, good or bad. If I pay a fellow to do a bad or a good thing, he is still responsible for what he did, good or bad.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Jim65

The OP said Greg sent him an email saying PSA rejected it. If Greg said that, that casts even more doubt on him.



Im not accusing Greg of anything, Ive always received good service from him but there is definately something not right here.

Yoda still doesn't understand who is doing what with respect to his transaction. He did however back off from saying that GMC's letter mentioned PSA.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by obcmac

I also recently had a not-so-great experience with the program. It was as a seller though. I sold a card...just listed what the card was and said see scans for condition. Somehow ebay (CSG) decided I didn't accurately represent the card and they were sending it back to me??? The money never made it to me, so I didn't handle the refund.

Mac

hmm.. A Grading company seeing all these raw cards - rejecting a percentage of them could(er ... better not , I’m still new here )

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by sonnyu2

As a buyer, I believe that you should have the option to opt out of the program, but if you do so, you lose any buyer protection - meaning no refunds for any reason and no support from eBay on the purchase.

That sounds reasonable, but I don't think there are good reasons for opting out, mostly it's just a lot of ranting, like Yoda is doing now.

And I suspect if the people that opted out did end up getting a bad card they would still squawk about it to everyone they could think of and blame ebay.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

That sounds reasonable, but I don't think there are good reasons for opting out, mostly it's just a lot of ranting, like Yoda is doing now.

And I suspect if the people that opted out did end up getting a bad card they would still squawk about it to everyone they could think of and blame ebay.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I just don't get how Yoda is so mixed up about the details of something that happened to him.

I personally think it is a great program.

[Yoda]

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

I wouldn't worry too much. Unfortunately Greg highly over graded a card to cause this problem. That is very rare for them so as long as the card matches the description you should be fine. Best of luck having many smooth transactions in the future.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

What's to fear? Worst case you get a full refund. And at that point if you still want the card you can probably arrange to buy it directly. This whole thread has me SMH honestly.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

Just ask Greg to relist it for $500 BIN using the word “authentic” in its description with no remark on the condition. It will then be re-evaluated for authenticity only by CSG and sent to you if its good. Problem solved, both parties happy.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Dead-Ball-Hitter

Just ask Greg to relist it for $500 BIN using the word “authentic” in its description with no remark on the condition. It will then be re-evaluated for authenticity only by CSG and sent to you if its good. Problem solved, both parties happy.

Have him list it with a 1988 Donruss common for the BIN and it will avoid the authentication service.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

I honestly don't understand why you're angry. The service stopped you from receiving an inaccurately described item and gave you an instant refund.

Sure, YOU might be OK with getting a card that was overgraded and described incorrectly but the vast majority of people would not. AND you knew this was the process before your purchase.

This whole thing worked exactly as it's supposed to with exactly the right outcome.

[RCMcKenzie]

It's security theatre, and the buyer should have the option to waive the review service. "Yoda" was the original message board operator for baseball cards related to eBay. It would be like security at Minute Maid Park detaining Dusty Baker from entering the Astros clubhouse before a game.

I went through it once, and it was very, very nice. They sent my card in a presentation box with a note saying the card I bought from Dean's was "not only authentic, but very authentic, and congratulations on a fine choice."

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Have him list it with a 1988 Donruss common for the BIN and it will avoid the authentication service.

He could also list it by offering free local pickup or add “Pack” ( but not Pack Fresh) to the title.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

Not sure why you're so unhappy that you ended up not paying more than you probably would have had the card been correctly graded initially. Also, there are currently several other 49 Bowman Spahns available on eBay (both raw and graded) that look like they are in comparable condition to the one you "won" and cost less than you bid so if you can't working something out with GM, there are other options available.

[Yoda]

I was angry at myself mainly because I failed to grasp the mechanics of the program and became confused. And then stupidly failed to reconcile the refund by checking the wrong bank statement. Ebay's program just seems so ponderous and not collector friendly. I will continue to use Greg, he has built a great company, but will check his grading far more closely so I don't have to go through all this another time.
Peter, I don't know what the the abbreviation SHM means. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
And, Joe, will try your approach. Makes sense, but I am not sure I even want the card anymore after all this.
Thanks to all Board members who offered constructive help.
Last post from me on this which should relieve everybody.

[Peter_Spaeth]

John -- SMH is shaking my head. Since the nonrefund was a false alarm, I still don't get why you would be upset that someone caught a problem with a card you bought, but that's just me. In any event, we'll move on.

[Jay Wolt]

One thing to consider about ebay's "guarantee" program,
the posters on N54 are pretty good about grading & understanding the nuances about cards.
What about if someone is just starting to collect or our wives wanted to get us an Xmas gift?
They would need the protection against scammers & over graders.
So I think it serves a useful purpose.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

John -- SMH is shaking my head. Since the nonrefund was a false alarm, I still don't get why you would be upset that someone caught a problem with a card you bought, but that's just me. In any event, we'll move on.

The problem isn’t that they caught a problem with the card though, it’s that they used that to unilaterally kill a deal the seller and buyer both wanted to happen anyways. I don’t think it’s a big deal for common cards, but for another example, most everything I buy over $250 is very rare and oft obscure.

~half of my buys in this range are in worse condition than the seller states. The seller says something like “appears excellent” and it has a pinhole and is clearly fair at best. I know this, I’m buying it anyways and don’t care about the sellers hyperbole because there is a clear picture and I know what I’m doing. Often times the card will be described wrong as to what it is, because it’s an obscure boxing piece and the seller doesn’t really know what it is. A lot of us don’t want eBay’s partners to unilaterally with no input from and against the express wishes of buyers, killing deals over a triviality. I don’t care what grade the seller who is not necessarily a card person described, or what they called the card. I might not see another for 2, 5, 10 years or even ever. It’s going to suck when CSG inevitably kills one of my deals like this. I’ve had good luck thus far pushing transactions off eBay (which I used to never do) to dodge it and the dice roll that they will or will not block me from taking possession of ‘my’ card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How did they kill it? If John still wants it he can buy it direct from Greg. They aren't burning the card at the stake.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How did they kill it? If John still wants it he can buy it direct from Greg. They aren't burning the card at the stake.

.... They forced the reversal of the transaction... They refund the buyer and send the card to the seller, nixing the deal. How are they NOT killing the sale? They could go do it offline, and breaking eBay's rules, I believe, but they are factually killing the deal. That much is not an opinion of whether this is good or bad or should be done.

[EddieP]

This may elucidate CSG’s role in the authentication process. Skip to 11:38

https://youtu.be/2kUi_Gj_UgQ

[perezfan]

Wow... Lot's of unnecessary drama and redundancy in this thread. I would think a dozen posts would have more than sealed the deal here.

Ebay's rules are crystal clear, and a refund was issued. I don't like the TPGs either, but this matter is cut and dried. If you don't mind the over-grading, just do the deal with Greg Morris off-line. You'll probably avoid paying sales tax, and he will avoid the eBay fees. A win-win.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Drama and redundancy are the hallmarks of many a thread, and no doubt I share some of the blame for that. But here, John said he hadn't been refunded, which I think in part led to it being drawn out.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by EddieP

This may elucidate CSG’s role in the authentication process. Skip to 11:38

https://youtu.be/2kUi_Gj_UgQ

The Andy guy does sound like he knows what he is doing. He sounds like someone I would be bidding against in an auction. Does he post on here? I recognize his name.

In my analogy, he's the guy that security calls to ask if it's okay to let Dusty Baker into the clubhouse and he says, "Dusty Baker?, Yeah, let him in."

[Yoda]

One final comment and then I shall be forever silent on this topic, which was caused was by my own stupid blunder and dramatics, and that is both the seller and Greg Morris can't be happy with this busted transaction, which should have been so simple without the interference of Ebay's vaunted new program.

I believe Greg really needs to grade on a conservative basis, which I think in the main he does. I have bought multiple raw cards, had them graded and received grades consistent with his. More Ebay interferences that are 'reported' like mine, are going to discourage sellers. His platform depends on the proper grading of cards in his auction or confidence is lost.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Yoda

More Ebay interferences that are 'reported' like mine, are going to discourage sellers.

Good. He overgraded the card. That's exactly the type of stuff I WANT discouraged.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

The Andy guy does sound like he knows what he is doing. He sounds like someone I would be bidding against in an auction. Does he post on here? I recognize his name.

In my analogy, he's the guy that security calls to ask if it's okay to let Dusty Baker into the clubhouse and he says, "Dusty Baker?, Yeah, let him in."

I don’t think he’s posted here in a long time.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...Andy+Broome%94

[Snowman]

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

You should contact EBay. The card should not have been authenticated.

1. The card you received is different than the one pictured in the auction, its a mistake but still a legitimate reason to return.
2.If the seller didn't mention the erasure, you have 2 grounds for refund.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

LOL, that is hilarious. I am sure I have done similar. I just wouldn't tell everyone or try to return something that was 100% my own fault.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, that is hilarious. I am sure I have done similar. I just wouldn't tell everyone or try to return something that was 100% my own fault.

Yes, it was partly his fault for not noticing but the seller is wrong too for not disclosing a fault and CSG is wrong for authenticating a card that clearly did not match the auction photos. CSG takes most of the blame here.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Yes, it was partly his fault for not noticing but the seller is wrong too for not disclosing a fault and CSG is wrong for authenticating a card that clearly did not match the auction photos. CSG takes most of the blame here.

The seller also is selling a 66 Mantle and screwed up uploading the picture. Weirdly they relisted it a several times before it sold and no one must have sent the seller a message letting them know of the mistake.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, that is hilarious. I am sure I have done similar. I just wouldn't tell everyone or try to return something that was 100% my own fault.

100% my fault? lol. OK, if you say so.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

So you bid on the rare 1 of 1 "Future Backs" parallels and the seller sent you a common backed one?

That's not right.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

So you bid on the rare 1 of 1 "Future Backs" parallels and the seller sent you a common backed one?

That's not right.

And my natural follow-up, because the divergence here is somewhat glaring:

You can spot 51/49 centering from across the room but can’t identify that the back photo is from the wrong year?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

And my natural follow-up, because the divergence here is somewhat glaring:

You can spot 51/49 centering from across the room but can’t identify that the back photo is from the wrong year?

1% centering is a lot more noticeable than the entire design.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by raulus

And my natural follow-up, because the divergence here is somewhat glaring:

You can spot 51/49 centering from across the room but can’t identify that the back photo is from the wrong year?

Correct. I primarily focus on the front centering. I couldn't care less about the back unless it has been altered. I looked for alterations. I didn't see any, so I bid accordingly. The CSG authenticator clearly didn't notice either. However, they also failed to spot the alteration, which is much worse IMO.

Here is the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285021128754

And here is a scan of the back of the card I received. Alteration circled in the top left corner. The scan blows out the color differentiation somewhat though. It's more obvious in hand. Someone tried to erase a pen marking in that corner.

I filed a claim. eBay denied the claim. I filed an appeal. We'll see how it goes...

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I filed a claim. eBay denied the claim. I filed an appeal. We'll see how it goes...

Most claims are never seen by humans, its all automation. Your appeal might be seen by a person but I would call them or contact them through Facebook. Making a case to an actual person helps.

I contacted EBay through Facebook recently and they responded within an hour and fixed the problem within 5 minutes.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Greg, spot on. My sentiments exactly. All I want is my card or my refund and I have neither. CSG's involvement is a fly in the ointment and totally unnecessary in what should be a simple transaction between the buyer and the seller. Let's face it, CSG is the weak sister among TPG'ers and I have never have or contemplated using them for grading.

Yeah, that would put the brakes on buying for me. I'd take about 6 months to a year off buying anything....Or maybe NEVER. E-bay should have refunded you immediately, but they don't know the meaning of the word. You'll get your money back after a little more aggravation.

AND the only reason to buy from Greg Morris in the past has been their fairly consistent grading. They don't miss many, but the other sellers are batting .056 with 500 strikeouts.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Yeah, that would put the brakes on buying for me. I'd take about 6 months to a year off buying anything....Or maybe NEVER. E-bay should have refunded you immediately, but they don't know the meaning of the word. You'll get your money back after a little more aggravation.

AND the only reason to buy from Greg Morris in the past has been their fairly consistent grading. They don't miss many, but the other sellers are batting .056 with 500 strikeouts.

John did get the refund he said that he was looking in the wrong account.

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

[jchcollins]

I guess I didn't realize that if a raw card goes to CSG, they are both authenticating it AND matching up what the seller said it would grade? That must get interesting fast, since descriptions of raw cards on eBay many times don't conform to a TPG's 10 point scale. What if they said a card was EX, but in the opposite direction - CSG said no, this is NM! Would that be rejected for being the "wrong" grade even if it were higher? I once bought a '61 Willie Mays AS that was described as "EX" by an eBay outfit that was more of an antique mall than a pure card dealer. When I sent it off to SGC, it came back an 8. Would that have "failed" authentication?