Hey, pennant guys

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This one is my favorite. Be sure to read the description.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16333780120...fiOYQ&LH_BIN=1

Notwithstanding that crazy price ... he is correct that his pennant is a (more rare?) variant.

I don't know about the "salesman's sample" logic; but there are some slight differences between the two that make me shake my head, e.g., stitching in the balls, detail in the grandstands, and the presence of the the flag at the tail-end.

I think the better explanation is the maker wanted to print this in white ink on red felt; but, because white ink is more viscous than darker colors, had to use a screen with a lower mesh count and a design with slightly less detail...? I can't come up with any other reason for such a slight variation.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Notwithstanding that crazy price ... he is correct that his pennant is a (more rare?) variant.

I don't know about the "salesman's sample" logic; but there are some slight differences between the two that make me shake my head, e.g., stitching in the balls, detail in the grandstands, and the presence of the the flag at the tail-end.

I think the better explanation is the maker wanted to print this in white ink on red felt; but, because white ink is more viscous than darker colors, had to use a screen with a lower mesh count and a design with slightly less detail...? I can't come up with any other reason for such a slight variation.

Great analysis, Kyle. Even though yellow on black makes no sense for the Red Sox, it is a much more attractive pennant. Maybe if the red one wasn’t faded…

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Notwithstanding that crazy price ... he is correct that his pennant is a (more rare?) variant.

I don't know about the "salesman's sample" logic; but there are some slight differences between the two that make me shake my head, e.g., stitching in the balls, detail in the grandstands, and the presence of the the flag at the tail-end.

I think the better explanation is the maker wanted to print this in white ink on red felt; but, because white ink is more viscous than darker colors, had to use a screen with a lower mesh count and a design with slightly less detail...? I can't come up with any other reason for such a slight variation.

Here’s mine, which is an identical copy of the red one in your pic. The one on eBay seems to be a late 40s WGN, based on the spine and tassels. The little flag by the tip appears on other WGNs, there are Tigers pennants with the year written inside. The red versions possibly came later and were maybe copied by another company. The spine, tassels, and stitching are all different from typical WGN pennants.

In light of these findings I’m willing to up my offer … I think $80 is about right.

[aelefson]

I recently acquired the mid 1970s pennants pictured below. Has anyone seen the 1974 Nets pennant before? In my limited online search attempts, I found ones with no date and ones with a crown, but none with a date and no crown. Unfortunately, mine is missing the tip and has some dirt showing.

Alan

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by aelefson

I recently acquired the mid 1970s pennants pictured below. Has anyone seen the 1974 Nets pennant before? In my limited online search attempts, I found ones with no date and ones with a crown, but none with a date and no crown. Unfortunately, mine is missing the tip and has some dirt showing.

Alan

Alan I don’t collect hockey or basketball but I do notice them while looking for baseball. I can’t say I’ve ever seen that Nets pennant. Pretty cool!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by aelefson

I recently acquired the mid 1970s pennants pictured below. Has anyone seen the 1974 Nets pennant before? In my limited online search attempts, I found ones with no date and ones with a crown, but none with a date and no crown. Unfortunately, mine is missing the tip and has some dirt showing.

Alan

Alan,
This pennant is not rare, but obviously it’s one of the ones people want because of the date and the Dr J ties. Also tougher condition wise because it’s white. I see it occasionally, but it’s think your looks good. If the tip bothers you, you’ll be able to find another in time.

[bocca001]

Some recent pickups. The Super Bowl XIX is a bootleg that is very, very tough to find. Thanks to Fballguy for finding it. Super Bowl XIX is prime 49ers fandom time for me, so I'm really happy with this one.

The yellow 49ers is part of a series that I have only seen as a tough-to-find mini-pennant (9 inches, I think). This 24-inch version showed up on ebay last week, along with 24 inch versions from other early 1960s (I think) NFL teams. I like it a lot. Am going to find a place for it on the wall.

The Astros is common in dark blue, but rare in Orange.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Some recent pickups. The Super Bowl XIX is a bootleg that is very, very tough to find. Thanks to Fballguy for finding it. Super Bowl XIX is prime 49ers fandom time for me, so I'm really happy with this one.

The yellow 49ers is part of a series that I have only seen as a tough-to-find mini-pennant (9 inches, I think). This 24-inch version showed up on ebay last week, along with 24 inch versions from other early 1960s (I think) NFL teams. I like it a lot. Am going to find a place for it on the wall.

The Astros is common in dark blue, but rare in Orange.

Cool pennants Marc! I’ve never seen any of those three before.

[aelefson]

Thank you Greg and Jason! I really appreciate the information.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Some recent pickups. The Super Bowl XIX is a bootleg that is very, very tough to find. Thanks to Fballguy for finding it. Super Bowl XIX is prime 49ers fandom time for me, so I'm really happy with this one.

The yellow 49ers is part of a series that I have only seen as a tough-to-find mini-pennant (9 inches, I think). This 24-inch version showed up on ebay last week, along with 24 inch versions from other early 1960s (I think) NFL teams. I like it a lot. Am going to find a place for it on the wall.

The Astros is common in dark blue, but rare in Orange.

I'll bet the Niner Super Collector doesn't even have that yellow Niners pennant. In years of searching I've never seen a set of 24" NFL pennants. Super cool get.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

The yellow 49ers is part of a series that I have only seen as a tough-to-find mini-pennant (9 inches, I think). This 24-inch version showed up on ebay last week, along with 24 inch versions from other early 1960s (I think) NFL teams. I like it a lot. Am going to find a place for it on the wall.

So, you bought some others in order to get the Niners?

Happy Thanksgiving, Pennant Guys!

[Domer05]

Thanks to my friends at Oxford Pennant in Buffalo, NY for sharing this wonderfully made Elton John tour pennant with me! These guys created a vintage-inspired pennant commemorating the legendary singer's final US concert, which took place at Dodger Stadium this past Sunday.

As you can see, their attention to detail was spot on, all the way down to the artwork and unique letter script used--an homage to another Buffalo pennant maker: Trench Mfg. Co., of course.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

The little flag by the tip appears on other WGNs, there are Tigers pennants with the year written inside.

I'm not sure WGN made this "ball thru the name" pennant series; but, you're correct about the little flag on the tail-end: it was used on other pennants, like this ca. 1947 Jackie Robinson pennant....

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I'm not sure WGN made this "ball thru the name" pennant series; but, you're correct about the little flag on the tail-end: it was used on other pennants, like this ca. 1947 Jackie Robinson pennant....

I think for sure the Red Sox and Jackie pennant are the same maker, the wide spine, stitching, thin tassels are all identical. One of a few reasons why I think they are WGN: the G in Dodgers is a unique style common to known WGNs. Also, the little flag towards the tip can be found on the Larry Doby pennant; that and the Satchel Paige have the common WGN font. I’m guessing that the company had a special run for early Black players, I think there’s one for Luke Easter, too.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Also, the little flag towards the tip can be found on the Larry Doby pennant; that and the Satchel Paige have the common WGN font. I’m guessing that the company had a special run for early Black players, I think there’s one for Luke Easter, too.

Yup. These do all appear to be by the same maker....

[Domer05]

More specimens from the "ball thru the name" series, manufactured by the same maker as the Robinson, Paige, and Doby pennants....

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

More specimens from the "ball thru the name" series, manufactured by the same maker as the Robinson, Paige, and Doby pennants....

Agreed. And now here’s why I think they are all WGN. It’s the identical freestyle font. Zoom in on Satchel. Now look at how ‘Wrigley Field’ is written on a known WGN. Same dude. A couple more examples are included that show the same writing style in the roster, along with the same structure (identical spine, tassels).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Notwithstanding that crazy price ... he is correct that his pennant is a (more rare?) variant.

I don't know about the "salesman's sample" logic; but there are some slight differences between the two that make me shake my head, e.g., stitching in the balls, detail in the grandstands, and the presence of the the flag at the tail-end.

I think the better explanation is the maker wanted to print this in white ink on red felt; but, because white ink is more viscous than darker colors, had to use a screen with a lower mesh count and a design with slightly less detail...? I can't come up with any other reason for such a slight variation.

Speaking of pennants with minor variances, here's another conundrum for you...

The more common Bum has fine whiskers... let's say about 2 days of growth.

The far rarer version has fewer/courser whiskers, looking like about 4 days of growth.

Other differences include the Cigar Ash, the Hat Brim detail, and the way the hair/sideburn covers his ear. I've always been intrigued by this and own 2 examples of each, though I'd estimate the "smaller whiskers" version outnumbers the other by about 8 to 1. Yet another hobby mystery!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Speaking of pennants with minor variances, here's another conundrum for you...

The more common Bum has fine whiskers... let's say about 2 days of growth.

The far rarer version has fewer/courser whiskers, looking like about 4 days of growth.

Other differences include the Cigar Ash, the Hat Brim detail, and the way the hair/sideburn covers his ear. I've always been intrigued by this and own 2 examples of each, though I'd estimate the "smaller whiskers" version outnumbers the other by about 8 to 1. Yet another hobby mystery!

Unsolved Pennant Mysteries, Season 1, Episode 1

Here’s the same bum, in color and with a pimple on his schnoz. Not Trench and possibly not the same company as the other bums you pictured.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Speaking of pennants with minor variances, here's another conundrum for you...

The more common Bum has fine whiskers... let's say about 2 days of growth.

The far rarer version has fewer/courser whiskers, looking like about 4 days of growth.

!

Mark, I think these variations you've noted may have been unintentional. I think they may have been caused by the normal inconsistencies to be expected during the screen printing process--not necessarily something the graphic artist intended.

As we know, "quality control" was kind of absent when these pennants were being cranked out. Differences in screen mesh counts can alter the level of detail seen in the final product ... changes in humidity will affect the drying process ... lighter colored inks perform differently than darker ones. It's not always possible to make perfect copies, one after the next.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Mark, I think these variations you've noted may have been unintentional. I think they may have been caused by the normal inconsistencies to be expected during the screen printing process--not necessarily something the graphic artist intended.

As we know, "quality control" was kind of absent when these pennants were being cranked out. Differences in screen mesh counts can alter the level of detail seen in the final product ... changes in humidity will affect the drying process ... lighter colored inks perform differently than darker ones. It's not always possible to make perfect copies, one after the next.

I think it's a different template. Especially when you look at the Bum's hat brim and hair covering the ear. Too much variance to be a simple inconsistency. Also, there is no "inbetween" exemplar.

And look at the difference in lines between his eyes and eyebrows, all of which are all missing on the second example. These are two distinctively different Bum variations.