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#1
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I share your sentiments.....sheets are certainly "special". My Sportscards collection includes many uncut sheets (from 1928 - 1966). An example from my collection is this unique complete sheet.....that tells us the story of why certain FB cards in this set are scarcer than others. ![]() Regarding these two famous T206's.....there is NO mystery about them, they were both cut from the same uncut sheet.** ![]() ![]() ![]() Gretzky Wagner-------------------------------------Charlie Conlin Plank Note ** My research indicates that the original uncut sheet that these two cards were on was first discovered in Long Island, NY (Suffolk County). Several other T206 Wagner cards were also discovered in that area. This is not as unusual as it may sound, since Joseph Palmer Knapp (American Lithographic Co. President) had a Summer home in Mastic Beach, Long Island. TED Z T206 Reference . |
#2
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Ted please don’t forget to leave that 52 sheet for me in your will. Absolutely stunning!
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Buying Kansas CDVs, Cabinets, RPPCs and other pre 1930 memorabilia. |
#3
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So where are the rest of the Wagner's and Plank's from that sheet Ted? And the most referenced information on where the sheet originated is Alan Ray's father bought it at a Florida flea market and then had Ray bring it to NY to sell it. |
#4
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Same thing with the Wagner and Plank coming from the same previously uncut sheet if they did IMO it wasn't a regular production sheet. Just like a picture is worth a thousand words the cards themselves tell the true story and all the information we have from the cards indicates that those two subjects weren't on the same sheet. When you look at the back information on the Plank it indicates a late addition to the set very much like Crawford (throwing) to me it shows he was added right around the time Crawford was and was pulled shortly after while Crawford continued though to the end of the print group 1 printing. |
#5
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Hey Folks, I will reiterate......
" My research indicates that the original uncut sheet that these two cards were printed on was originally discovered in Long Island, NY (Suffolk County). Several other T206 Wagner cards have also been discovered in this part of L.I., NY ." However, eventually, this particular sheet ended-up (or I should say "ended-down") in Florida. ![]() Joseph Palmer Knapp was the founder of the American Lithographic Company (circa late 19th Century). He had a Summer home in Mastic Beach, L. I., New York. The point I'm making here is that Mr Knapp sometime during the summer of 1909 most likely brought T206 sheets containing Wagner cards and Plank's, and other 150-only Series cards home for his children. What evidence do I have that there is a high likelihood that this occurred......check-out the following complete uncut sheets which I acquired (circa 40 years ago) from former employees at Zabel Brothers Printers in Philadelphia, that produced the BOWMAN cards. During my High School years, I had a part-time job working at a Print Shop. The printers regularly took home many of their printed material. 1948 BOWMAN complete uncut sheets ![]() ![]() 1949 BOWMAN complete uncut sheets ![]() ![]() 1950 BOWMAN complete uncut sheet ![]() ![]() 1952 BOWMAN complete uncut sheet (Large card version) ![]() Pat Regarding this statement of yours..... " When you look at the back information on the Plank it indicates a late addition to the set " I don't quite get it. Please explain. TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 11-18-2022 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#6
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You keep ,posting that your research indicates that it was originally discovered on Long Island but you're not showing or saying where that information came from. Here's the claim that I've seen about it's origin img188.jpg |
#7
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But just to clarify, remind me, who allegedly cut the card from the sheet? And who owned the single when Mastro bought it?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#8
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Allegedly Ray and Sevchuk cut up the sheet before Mastro purchased the Wagner and the other cards that was on it from them.
Last edited by Pat R; 11-18-2022 at 01:33 PM. |
#9
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OK that makes sense; it was Ray I believe who supplied the controversial "before" picture that was published in the Daily News.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#10
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1..... You have to realize that back in 1985, I was one of the dealers at the Willow Grove Show to whom this card was offered to. Upon my close examination, I passed on it. I was told that it was originally discovered on an uncut sheet in Long Island, NY. I cannot recall who told me of this that weekend in 1985. My research indicating Mr. Knapp of ALC having a residence in that part of Long Island provided a certain amount of credibility to story. Years later, the "source" of this Wagner card was said to be Florida. And that claim sounded plausible, since many New Yorkers are "snow birds" during the Winter. 2...... I simply asked Pat if he would elaborate on the difference between the Plank card's back with respect to the Wagner card's back). Do you have a "problem" with this question ? TED Z T206 Reference . |
#11
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I have a vague memory of Ray refusing to say where he got the card, which would be inconsistent with his father having purchased the sheet in Florida. Maybe that's wrong.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#12
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1. You said in 46 and reiterated in 51, "My research indicates that the original uncut sheet that these two cards were on was first discovered in Long Island, NY (Suffolk County)." Pat cited a source, reported in The Card, that contains the familiar Florida source, of it being found at a flea market there. So I asked what is the evidence for this counter claim. I have no idea what the actual truth is, but it seems logical that, when we have conflicting evidence, we would look at all of that evidence to see where it leads. We have one side of it sourced. It sounds like the evidence against this is that you heard an anonymous person of unknown connection to the origin say otherwise at a show? 2. Obviously I have no problem with asking Pat on the differences of it's reverse(s) with Wagner. |
#13
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So if the sheet was 'discovered' at a flea market in FL, many (70?) years after it was printed, what is the history of the sheet before the flea market? If it was indeed printed in NYC, like Ted says, could it not have lived on Long Island for many, many years before making it's way to Florida?
It seems entirely possible that both stories are correct, just shifted in time from each other.
__________________
Working Sets: Baseball- T206 SLers - Virginia League (-2) 1952 Topps - low numbers (-1) 1954 Bowman (-5) 1964 Topps Giants auto'd (-2) |
#14
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#15
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#16
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First group is 150 series and the second factors in the 350 series img189.jpg |
#17
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Corey, you should probably direct your authenticity questions to Ted.
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