Some of the mysteries and myths surrounding the most famous card in the hobby.

[G1911]

I think point 2 is the big problem. I think it’s entirely possible there was only one Wagner, presumably it was not a complete sheet but a sheet fragment. We know many subjects in multiple sets didn’t repeat all the way down a column. It’s feasible that the Wagner was on the top row of the fragment, if the fragment existed and was the origin.

I doubt Plank was on the same sheet as the Wagner. They may have both come from the same origin, perhaps a handful of strips?

While I’m against sheet or strip destruction entirely, it’s really a shame there appears to be no record of this find or whatever it was for educational purposes, no photograph that actually exists of what it was before cutting. We have millions of cards from this 1909-1912 card project, but a tiny handful of uncut items. I’ve been trying to track down evidence of every little scrap of uncut material from the T cards known and turned up almost nothing that people can provide any reasonable evidence for the existence of.

[Leon]

As for strips of T cards, I am not sure if you are talking only T206 but there have been some strips known. I used to own these below. I think there are quite a few out there in collections, but not shown often.

Originally Posted by G1911

I think point 2 is the big problem. I think it’s entirely possible there was only one Wagner, presumably it was not a complete sheet but a sheet fragment. We know many subjects in multiple sets didn’t repeat all the way down a column. It’s feasible that the Wagner was on the top row of the fragment, if the fragment existed and was the origin.

I doubt Plank was on the same sheet as the Wagner. They may have both come from the same origin, perhaps a handful of strips?

While I’m against sheet or strip destruction entirely, it’s really a shame there appears to be no record of this find or whatever it was for educational purposes, no photograph that actually exists of what it was before cutting. We have millions of cards from this 1909-1912 card project, but a tiny handful of uncut items. I’ve been trying to track down evidence of every little scrap of uncut material from the T cards known and turned up almost nothing that people can provide any reasonable evidence for the existence of.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Leon

As for strips of T cards, I am not sure if you are talking only T206 but there have been some strips known. I used to own these below. I think there are quite a few out there in collections, but not shown often.

There are a number, “a tiny handful” as I claimed, - but the amount is tiny. There’s some Obaks I believe are a different project from the one credited to American Lithogrpahy and the ATC, though it seems to be much more complicated than that oft stated credit.

There’s 2 T25 strips. There’s the Wagner prototype strip. There’s a T62 proof sheet or two. There’s 92% of a T220-1 sheet. There’s some E229 fragments (I know, E, however I suspect they used the same contracts as the T cards and were a Brett production at the same time as part of the general project). Off the top of head I can’t think of any others that were part of this project, I probably have records of 1 or 2 more in my notebook. I have been told about a number of others, but from hobbyists unable or unwilling to provide a picture or any evidence that it actually exists. I would love to see others, we have and can learn a lot from other sets that were part of this 1909-1912 promotion.

[benjulmag]

As regards T cards, it is my understanding that some years ago a complete uncut T204 set surfaced, which was subsequently cut down into its individual cards. As I recall, over the years some of these cards appeared on the market.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Are all the known PD150 Planks sheet cut?

[bnorth]

Most famous card. This has nothing to do with the 1989 Fleer Bill Ripken card.

Haven't there been pics of the horizontal strip the Wagner was cut from shown before?

[Jobu]

There is a strip of T206 - the strip that was found in Wagner's house (perhaps in the pocket of old uniform pants). It sold in Hunt in 2010:

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=242&lot_qual=

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

As regards T cards, it is my understanding that some years ago a complete uncut T204 set surfaced, which was subsequently cut down into its individual cards. As I recall, over the years some of these cards appeared on the market.

I think the Wajo is for sale in the next Mile High Auction (not mine)

[G1911]

I believe the T204 sheet was destroyed by Frank Nagy in the late 80's or 90's, and thus I did not include. I don't think there is a photograph of it to show the layout that we might learn anything from. I'm also not sure if the T204's were printed by the same group of partners that did the partnership promotion with the ATC; if they are really part of the 1909-1912 card promotion generally credited in the hobby to the American Lithographic Co. and the American Tobacco Co. (though it definitely included other printing companies that may or may not have been shadow subsidiaries, and probably a small number of non-ATC products).

T419 is several years before this project and not part of it, though a series of proof sheets sounds no less awesome for that fact.

[Rhotchkiss]

Maybe cut up, but Not destroyed. As I said, this is in the upcoming Mile High Auction (which looks like an amazing auction BTW).

[Jobu]

I have uncut proof sheets for the entire T419 ATC Beauties playing card set --- 7 sheets in total I think.

Originally Posted by G1911

There are a number, “a tiny handful” as I claimed, - but the amount is tiny. There’s some Obaks I believe are a different project from the one credited to American Lithogrpahy and the ATC, though it seems to be much more complicated than that oft stated credit.

There’s 2 T25 strips. There’s the Wagner prototype strip. There’s a T62 proof sheet or two. There’s 92% of a T220-1 sheet. There’s some E229 fragments (I know, E, however I suspect they used the same contracts as the T cards and were a Brett production at the same time as part of the general project). Off the top of head I can’t think of any others that were part of this project, I probably have records of 1 or 2 more in my notebook. I have been told about a number of others, but from hobbyists unable or unwilling to provide a picture or any evidence that it actually exists. I would love to see others, we have and can learn a lot from other sets that were part of this 1909-1912 promotion.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

As for strips of T cards, I am not sure if you are talking only T206 but there have been some strips known. I used to own these below. I think there are quite a few out there in collections, but not shown often.

Top strip is cool. Shame there's a little schmutz on it though...