Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

They took $75,000,000 from Rhode Island and filed bankruptcy a year later. They moved to RI in April 2011 and were already bouncing checks in May of 2012. Those in charge of the funding were found to have committed fraud and the company, Schilling included, knew they couldn't deliver what they had promised for that $75m. That's theft. Plain and simple.

They received the investment loan in 2010, May 2012 is the collapse. That they ran out of money is not unusual. They didn't make it. Most businesses fail. Is there any evidence that they could not have created the 450 jobs if they had succeeded? That doesn't seem like overkill for a studio that succeeds. There's a very good argument the government should not engage in this kind of speculative investment, which I agree with.

It was reported in 2014 that some unnamed executives knew that the loan was not enough to cover all their expenses and finish the game (which was finished though). I am not clear whether there was some promise in the contract that the investment would be the only money needed by the company. That would be highly unusual. The SEC charged Rhode Island Commerce Corporation and Wells Fargo with fraud for not disclosing relevant information to bond holders. The Rhode Island police were also unable to find anything to charge Schilling or 38 with. Schilling and the company eventually had to pay $61 million in civil suits and costs, eating up most of Schilling's net worth, apparently.

Citation for theft charge, and the claim that Schilling knew the company would not succeed and could not deliver? They came close, their game got very good reviews and sold over a million copies in the first 90 days, it's not like they were selling a phantom product they never made.

As far as I can tell, the government made poor choices, the company got some big names in that world and put together a good product, but it failed as the majority do, and so the company went under and it's backers, Schilling primary among them, lost money.

I see zero relevance to the Hall of Fame. I can't find any evidence Schilling did anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing a piece. While I disagree with many of his public comments, I don't see the problem with a business not succeeding.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

They received the investment loan in 2010, May 2012 is the collapse. That they ran out of money is not unusual. They didn't make it. Most businesses fail. Is there any evidence that they could not have created the 450 jobs if they had succeeded? That doesn't seem like overkill for a studio that succeeds. There's a very good argument the government should not engage in this kind of speculative investment, which I agree with.

It was reported in 2014 that some unnamed executives knew that the loan was not enough to cover all their expenses and finish the game (which was finished though). I am not clear whether there was some promise in the contract that the investment would be the only money needed by the company. That would be highly unusual. The SEC charged Rhode Island Commerce Corporation and Wells Fargo with fraud for not disclosing relevant information to bond holders. The Rhode Island police were also unable to find anything to charge Schilling or 38 with. Schilling and the company eventually had to pay $61 million in civil suits and costs, eating up most of Schilling's net worth, apparently.

Citation for theft charge, and the claim that Schilling knew the company would not succeed and could not deliver? They came close, their game got very good reviews and sold over a million copies in the first 90 days, it's not like they were selling a phantom product they never made.

As far as I can tell, the government made poor choices, the company got some big names in that world and put together a good product, but it failed as the majority do, and so the company went under and it's backers, Schilling primary among them, lost money.

I see zero relevance to the Hall of Fame. I can't find any evidence Schilling did anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing a piece. While I disagree with many of his public comments, I don't see the problem with a business not succeeding.

The game in question was an MMORPG that was never completed and never released.

If you take money for something you know you can't do, that's theft. It's really that simple.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The game in question was an MMORPG that was never completed and never released.

If you take money for something you know you can't do, that's theft. It's really that simple.

How does this relate to his baseball career?

He has the 26th all time highest WAR as a pitcher. There are 84 pitchers currently enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Just on the surface that hardly says “borderline” or “just outside” the hall standards.

I am not a Schilling fan but it seems some are looking for reasons to exclude.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

How does this relate to his baseball career?

He has the 26th all time highest WAR as a pitcher. There are 84 pitchers currently enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Just on the surface that hardly says “borderline” or “just outside” the hall standards.

I am not a Schilling fan but it seems some are looking for reasons to exclude.

Not at all, we just now truly believe that if you start a business and it fails, that should keep you out of the Hall of Fame if your name is Curt Schilling. This has nothing to do with politics, this rule is specific to him and only him just because.


I almost don't care what the standards are, but the standard should be the same for all. It is blatantly corrupt and wrong when they are not.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

How does this relate to his baseball career?

It doesn't and I never said it did. Since his charitable works and humanitarian stuff - which also don't relate to his baseball career - were brought up, I added in tvs stuff about his company to fill in picture. Nothing more, nothing less.

You didn't ask but I'll tell you - I think he's good enough to be in the Hall.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The game in question was an MMORPG that was never completed and never released.

If you take money for something you know you can't do, that's theft. It's really that simple.

They released the single-player game to good reviews and decent sales in 2012. The MMO component, I see, is what the investment was for and ultimately didn't get to release when they ran out of money.

Still can't find any evidence at all that Schilling solicited and took money for a project he "knew" they couldn't do. That's a very, very serious crime if he did. Have that source for it?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

They released the single-player game to good reviews and decent sales in 2012. The MMO component, I see, is what the investment was for and ultimately didn't get to release when they ran out of money.

Still can't find any evidence at all that Schilling solicited and took money for a project he "knew" they couldn't do. That's a very, very serious crime if he did. Have that source for it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/b...8-studios.html

Schilling said they needed $100m to make the game. They got $75m.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Tabe

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/b...8-studios.html

Schilling said they needed $100m to make the game. They got $75m.

To the casual reader, though, the case against Mr. Schilling may not be all that impressive. After all, if people went around suing everyone who accepted a loan for less money than they actually needed, the courts wouldn’t have time for anything else. In the state’s version of events, Mr. Schilling comes off as an arrogant and overexuberant entrepreneur, possessed of grand delusions. But there’s no suggestion that he intended to swindle anyone. He clearly believed he could succeed.

No, it was the entire political establishment of Rhode Island, not Curt Schilling, who decided that it would be a good idea for the taxpayers to capitalize a gaming company that had never actually produced a game, because the guy running it had a World Series ring, and because it might just seed a magic garden of technological innovation.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

To the casual reader, though, the case against Mr. Schilling may not be all that impressive. After all, if people went around suing everyone who accepted a loan for less money than they actually needed, the courts wouldn’t have time for anything else. In the state’s version of events, Mr. Schilling comes off as an arrogant and overexuberant entrepreneur, possessed of grand delusions. But there’s no suggestion that he intended to swindle anyone. He clearly believed he could succeed.

No, it was the entire political establishment of Rhode Island, not Curt Schilling, who decided that it would be a good idea for the taxpayers to capitalize a gaming company that had never actually produced a game, because the guy running it had a World Series ring, and because it might just seed a magic garden of technological innovation.

Sounds like a sure thing to me.

Where do I invest?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

To the casual reader, though, the case against Mr. Schilling may not be all that impressive. After all, if people went around suing everyone who accepted a loan for less money than they actually needed, the courts wouldn’t have time for anything else. In the state’s version of events, Mr. Schilling comes off as an arrogant and overexuberant entrepreneur, possessed of grand delusions. But there’s no suggestion that he intended to swindle anyone. He clearly believed he could succeed.

No, it was the entire political establishment of Rhode Island, not Curt Schilling, who decided that it would be a good idea for the taxpayers to capitalize a gaming company that had never actually produced a game, because the guy running it had a World Series ring, and because it might just seed a magic garden of technological innovation.

In fact, getting 3/4 of the estimated cost from a single investment group is pretty darn good. It is not theft, a swindle or any kind of a crime to secure 75% of estimated costs from a single investor. If it was, basically ever senior person at most companies would be in jail. Hell, I'm probably a criminal under this standard. That's just not how it works...

This isn't a big deal. Schilling's business failed, took out his wealth and his investors lost money. They got 1 of their 2 products to release, and that 1 did pretty well actually. What is it, more than 3 in 4 businesses fail in their first few years? This isn't a crime. It's completely normal. It's a high risk high reward game.

It's never had anything whatsoever do with the Hall before.

These arguments are especially stupid because they are unnecessary. It isn't hard to make Schilling look like an ass, one doesn't need to make up fake news about crimes that didn't happen or being a Nazi to do that. Just give him a microphone and he will soon enough say something that a lot of people won't like. Which doesn't have anything to do with the Hall of Fame either.