Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

Who are you referring to?

David Ortiz.

Ortiz himself has confirmed he failed a test. It's not a rumor, it's not "supposedly", etc.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/d...sted-positive/

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

David Ortiz.

Ortiz himself has confirmed he failed a test. It's not a rumor, it's not "supposedly", etc.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/d...sted-positive/

I believe the current version of the narrative from Ortiz fans is that it doesn’t count because MLB won’t certify it (they can’t) and it wasn’t supposed to be public (like basically all wrongdoing in human history, and every players use). Thus Ortiz should be let off the hook, but everyone else who is not a Red Sox player or media darling can be punished. You know it’s a loser of a case when this is the argument they are left with.

[drmondobueno]

Why not Rose and Joe Jackson?

Using the old arguments are at least hypocritical and at best self serving.

Besides, I want a price bump on my Rose collection when he goes into the hall

[BobC]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Why not Rose and Joe Jackson?

Using the old arguments are at least hypocritical and at best self serving.

Besides, I want a price bump on my Rose collection when he goes into the hall

Because under the current HOF rules a person currently banned by MLB is ineligible for election to the HOF.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by BobC

Because under the current HOF rules a person currently banned by MLB is ineligible for election to the HOF.

Also, neither did much after 1980

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Also, neither did much after 1980

LOL

Right you are. I was just thinking in terms of these veterans' committees in general. That question is more pertinent a couple years from now when the non-contemporary Veterans Committee meets.

[HistoricNewspapers]

Originally Posted by G1911

I believe the current version of the narrative from Ortiz fans is that it doesn’t count because MLB won’t certify it (they can’t) and it wasn’t supposed to be public (like basically all wrongdoing in human history, and every players use). Thus Ortiz should be let off the hook, but everyone else who is not a Red Sox player or media darling can be punished. You know it’s a loser of a case when this is the argument they are left with.

If Ortiz was a vocal Republican then it would have been used against him and he would not be in...kind of like how Curt Schilling is being kept out. Writers have bias. Whoever on the committee will have bias. Its the nature of the beast. Some have it work in their advantage, some don't.

Ortiz should not be in while the other better players who may have used as well are not in.

If Schilling is not in due to his personality, then the same standard should be applied to every player, and then Dale Murphy should be in due to his personality being exemplary.

Nobody is a capable judge on someone else's character unless they see that person's actions 100% of the time and every second of their life. All they see is an incomplete picture either positive or negative. There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing and you never really know.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by HistoricNewspapers

If Ortiz was a vocal Republican then it would have been used against him and he would not be in...kind of like how Curt Schilling is being kept out.

Ortiz should not be in while the other better players who may have used as well are not in.

If Schilling is not in due to his personality, then the same standard should be applied to every player, and then Dale Murphy should be in due to his personality being exemplary.

The VC's numerous iterations have always made some poor choices, and had much corruption and cronyism. The writers, while I have disagreed occasionally, have done a generally good job with those they elected. The writers have really turned their vote into a joke now, by embracing that same corruption and cronyism to reward their pals and punish their enemies, with seemingly little regard for actual accomplishment.

If Ortiz is in, so should Bonds and Clemens and others who were undeniably better than Ortiz but kept out for being guilty of the same crime he is. Schilling being kept out as a political enemy is just as bad. If Schilling was an asshole who shared a meme joke about hanging Oath Keepers or whatever-the-boogeyman-of-the-day is, he would be voted in with little comment (actually, he'd probably be lauded for his 'brave stand'). It's not his 'personality', it's his personality as a political enemy. The writers used to treat the Hall as a baseball accomplishment; they no longer are. Perhaps one day we can return to rationality.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

Perhaps one day we can return to rationality.

Hope springs eternal!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Hope springs eternal!

I'm an optimist with my pessimism.

[Tabe]

When discussing Schilling's personality, it's also worth remembering that he stole a pile of money from the state of Rhode Island.

[BioCRN]

Ah, a good ol' Curt "Schrodinger's HOF'r" Schilling discussion.

Great pitcher, especially considering he didn't fully figure it out until his late 20s. Shame he decided to alienate reporters and a few million other people as a post-career hobby.

Maybe we'll have less of this kind of thing in the future.

I'm more interested in how the committee will treat Bonds and Clemens.

[Carter08]

Schilling’s stats and the eye test of the time make him either a low grade HOFer or just outside. I’m fine either way. If journalists vote and he posts a meme of hanging journalists, fair to expect he might not get in. Won’t lose sleep over it.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Schilling’s stats and the eye test of the time make him either a low grade HOFer or just outside. I’m fine either way. If journalists vote and he posts a meme of hanging journalists, fair to expect he might not get in. Won’t lose sleep over it.

I don't think he's borderline at all in terms of stats and accomplishments.

He didn't post a meme about hanging journalists, he commented on it in a positive way, which was stupid, but different than what he is often accused of.