Messi and Ronaldo

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- outside of penalty kicks, I have seen exactly goal (at the pro level)
that was entirely self generated over the past 35+ years. That would be
Maradona's "other" goal in the infamous "Hand of God" game versus
England in the World Cup. The goal I referenced has been voted "Goal of the
Century", and Maradona truly was a one-man gang for it. I've never seen
Ronaldo do anything like that. Despite his high opinion of himself and a ton
of press praising him, Cristiano has had a lot of help over the years (as did
Maradona). Some of his Man United and Real Madrid squads were loaded,
teams could not focus on stopping him exclusively like they would
Maradona (or, if they did, they would pay).

These "best ever" questions almost always go astray for a number of
reasons. Pele and Maradona played different positions, for one thing. Pele
was a monster goal scorer- best ever- who was often surrounded in W Cup
with other killer players. I am too young to have watched any of those
matches, but I love his play in brief captures and think he is magisterial. The
single most exciting player I ever watched was Maradona. He was like a
tornado, blowing around and scaring the daylights out of opponents. Rough
play was normalized in his era, players would try to hurt him and punch him
like boxers out of frustration. I also enjoyed watching Ronaldinho, Messi,
Bergkamp offensively, more so than Ronaldo. Defense is an altogether
different conversation naturally. The short answer is I don't feel qualified to
answer and I don't think there's a wrong one between those two.

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trent do you know the scene in Visionquest about Pele?

By the way I think if you slow down that unreal Maradona goal he only touches the ball with his right foot. The whole thing was absurd. But yes, I wasn't suggesting many goals are guys dribbling half the field alone and then shooting, but there are still lots of goals IMO that are predominantly individual efforts. Matter of degree.

I missed a chance to see Maradona in the late 89s. Stupid.

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- I am enough of a soccer "nerd" to know that movie scene, yes. Chilling
and nail on the head!

I guess I'll close by saying that players like Pele, Maradona, Messi fit that
movie scene more than Ronaldo does. I'm just a guy with an opinion, but I
have watched a ton of soccer and am more than a causal fan.

Here's one back at you. If you want to see a goal that leaves your jaw
falling open, do an internet search for "Dennis Bergkamp best goal- Arsenal
and Newcastle". It's a 30 second clip and is ASTONISHING! Did you know
that some of his teammates used to bet with each other regarding how many
days (!) Bergkamp would go in practice, without making a mistake in a drill?

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

I know the Bergkamp goal very well. He has quite a few highlight reel goals truly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsZkCFoqSBs

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- yes he does, he was a master. Did you know that his teammates
nicknamed him "The Non Flying Dutchman" because he feared plane travel?

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL.
The goal against Argentina was remarkable, if you watch it in slow motion the control is unreal. Of course it's also set up by a fabulous pass.

A different Ronaldo (Luís Nazário de Lima) from Brazil a cut out in a Topo Gigio Comic Book that I got in Italy on vacation visiting family in 1999