After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?

Aquarian Sports Cards · #1 11-05-2022, 03:21 PM

Bob C.

Your second paragraph makes it sound like that would be a bad thing. I would think taking the pulse of the room is a very good step to take if this were more than a mere hypothetical.

It also may have come up and Leon already decided, but then though, "wonder what the gang would think" or any one of a number of other scenarios.

Weird to jump to making it sound like something somehow nefarious is going on.

jethrod3 · #2 11-05-2022, 03:31 PM

People that are arrested for issues that have to do with violation of ethics can pay their debt to society and be released back into society, but this doesn't mean that they are any more ethical than the day they started to pay their debt to society. Of course, some do grow in the process. It's just hard to know who has grown and who hasn't. There are also outside factors that may have compelled the person to do what they have done. In the end, I think assessments need to be made on a case-by-case basis. One idea might be to create a small review panel consisting of folks that are among the most trusted members on this site and whose opinions would be viewed as representative of all board members since they would be able to contribute different perspectives as needed.

BobC · #3 11-05-2022, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Bob C.

Your second paragraph makes it sound like that would be a bad thing. I would think taking the pulse of the room is a very good step to take if this were more than a mere hypothetical.

It also may have come up and Leon already decided, but then though, "wonder what the gang would think" or any one of a number of other scenarios.

Weird to jump to making it sound like something somehow nefarious is going on.

Scott, I'm not saying it is a bad idea to take the pulse of the room at all. Just that Leon should lean more toward what he thinks is the right thing to do, and not necessarily worry about what some others think. The people that come to this forum aren't likely to find one like it elsewhere, and so would likely stay and just not say something to upset Leon, even if they didn't agree with him.

And what exactly was I implying was nefarious? The definition of nefarious typically applies to describing an action or activity as wicked or criminal. Thinking about letting someone convicted of a hobby related crime on here as a member is in and of itself wicked or criminal how? And if you're instead referring to the CSG issue and how I mentioned that no one gave Leon any grief I know of for letting them advertise on here, that was in reference to others who posted their extreme dislike for CSG and were literally accusing them of being engaged in nefarious activities because of their agreement to work with PWCC. I never said or implied CSG did anything nefarious, I merely pointed out that other members had. And I never said or implied that Net54 accepting CSG as an advertiser was in any way nefarious either. What I was saying/implying was that I was a bit surprised that none of the people accusing CSG of nefarious activity by agreeing to work with PWCC didn't then automatically extend that same accusation of nefarious activity to Net54 when Leon decided to let them advertise and be promoted on here. At least not publicly give Leon/Net54 grief about it. Which demonstrates, to me at least, that Leon will likely not be subjected to the same public ridicule and negativity from others that pretty much anyone else not Leon is going to get. So to the poll question, I trust that however it does ultimately turn out, that Leon will not let the poll results dissuade him from doing what he thinks is right if this poll is more than just a hypothetical one.

Oscar_Stanage · #4 11-05-2022, 04:47 PM

my 2 cents...
I bought a card from someone and was told that the only issue was the paper loss back of the card (implying that the front was solid). The card had noticeable creases when in my hand. This is not 'fraud' but I would never deal with this person ever again.

the bar here should be higher. we should strive for people who we can pay with F&F and not have any issues ever. if someone once deceived someone for money, I forgive them but not sure they need to be floating around here doing deals. Fraud requires intent to deceive - it is basically stealing.

jingram058 · #5 11-05-2022, 04:57 PM

❓ QUESTION ❓ In the card collecting, investing, grading, buying, selling world, how does someone get to be forgiven for whatever they have done? The overwhelming responses to OP question to this point say there is no forgiveness. Once found out, convicted or otherwise, you are not ever forgiven and carry the stigma for good.

G1911 · #6 11-05-2022, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

❓ QUESTION ❓ In the card collecting, investing, grading, buying, selling world, how does someone get to be forgiven for whatever they have done? The overwhelming responses to OP question to this point say there is no forgiveness. Once found out, convicted or otherwise, you are not ever forgiven and carry the stigma for good.

Yes. If someone rips me off and cheats me, I do not forget it and then deal with them again.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 11-05-2022, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

❓ QUESTION ❓ In the card collecting, investing, grading, buying, selling world, how does someone get to be forgiven for whatever they have done? The overwhelming responses to OP question to this point say there is no forgiveness. Once found out, convicted or otherwise, you are not ever forgiven and carry the stigma for good.

As I said before, plenty of people who have been "found out" are in the upper echelons of the business, don't kind yourself. Including convicted criminals.

G1911 · #8 11-05-2022, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I said before, plenty of people who have been "found out" are in the upper echelons of the business, don't kind yourself. Including convicted criminals.

That�s impossible. There�s no way we�d all tolerate a bunch of fraudsters, scammers, criminals and dirtbags to run the auctions we trust. Surely you jest

Peter_Spaeth · #9 11-05-2022, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

That�s impossible. There�s no way we�d all tolerate a bunch of fraudsters, scammers, criminals and dirtbags to run the auctions we trust. Surely you jest

Only if they have cards we want. And I do not exempt myself.

View Poll Results: After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?
Yes	67	18.56%
No	257	71.19%
I don't care	37	10.25%
Voters: 361. You may not vote on this poll

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Hobby history: The hobby 50 years ago, July 1967	trdcrdkid	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	8	07-23-2017 04:41 PM
Hobby history: Card dealers of the 1960s: James T. Elder (+ hobby drama, 1968-69)	trdcrdkid	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	12	03-08-2017 06:23 PM
the list (of criminals) is revealed	sflayank	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	998	03-30-2016 07:54 AM
Autograph News Live - criminals or just cowards?	Michael Frost	Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports	186	10-25-2013 11:36 PM
criminals and heroes of the t206 set	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	19	01-11-2009 08:03 PM