Top 25 Worst MLB HOFER’S

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Whew, Baseballcrazy62, you have opened a can of worms

My thought consistently goes to Phil Rizzuto. Exactly ONE good offensive
year (1950) and, in my opinion, riding the Yankee coattails like a good surfer
riding a wave... I did not do exhaustive research on every HOF member, he
merely strikes me as someone who should be in the conversation.

G1911- back to the "overrated" thing, and your little ploy of dangling
backhanded compliments? Great. Cal Ripken owns a "hallowed record" but
is "overrated in the public mind"? I know, when questioned you'll reply, "But
I said he was a Gold Glove shortstop with a hallowed record" (before you
insulted him, of course). I know you won't consider facts that wreck your
proclamations, but for those who do:

1) Ripken is NUMBER ONE all time for home runs for shortstops.
2) Ripken is NUMBER ONE all time for RBI among shortstops.
3) The consecutive game mark isn't just a "hallowed record". It's an
astonishing accomplishment that, in today's game, is hard to imagine
anyone ever eclipsing.
4) Ripken was an excellent defensive player for the bulk of his career.
5) Two MVPs.

Pray tell, what is this "public mind" you can access? Never mind, don't tell.
Your comment was ridiculous and indefensible, but you keep being you...

Trent King (not an Orioles fan!)

I’ve been busted, you’ve uncovered my massive conspiracy to tarnish Cal Ripken . My proclamation has been #wrecked! Got ‘em!

You’re so weird. Two things can be true at once. Ripken is overrated in the public mind; he’s also a stud shortstop and a top 10er. He does own a hallowed record. I know you’re furious some people didn’t join in your hagiography of Clemente instead of looking at the math but get over it. You will always find something to be offended over if you’re looking for it.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’ve been busted, you’ve uncovered my massive conspiracy to tarnish Cal Ripken . My proclamation has been #wrecked! Got ‘em!

After Ripken RC's cratered in price, you were planning to buy them all up and corner the market, weren't you? #evilmastermind

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

After Ripken RC's cratered in price, you were planning to buy them all up and corner the market, weren't you? #evilmastermind

Man, how did you know?! I thought I was about to cash out a million or two off this genius scam I had planned out .

When I was a kid, I went as Cal Ripken for Halloween one year after he broke the record. He was the only jersey I owned, even though I was from a Giants house.

[paul]

I'd take Pie Traynor off the list. Until Brooks Robinson's performance in the 1970 World Series, Traynor was almost universally ranked as the greatest third baseman of all time. Everyone couldn't have been that wrong for so long.

I was surprised not to see Tinker or Evers or Chance. I know there are some Evers fans on the board, but Tinker?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by paul

I'd take Pie Traynor off the list. Until Brooks Robinson's performance in the 1970 World Series, Traynor was almost universally ranked as the greatest third baseman of all time. Everyone couldn't have been that wrong for so long.

I was surprised not to see Tinker or Evers or Chance. I know there are some Evers fans on the board, but Tinker?

The list is just sorting by WAR rate, but I agree. WAR absolutely hates Traynor, and there may be a lesson that he’s been overrated, but I have a hard time seeing how he isn’t a hall of famer at all by the standards of his time and his election time.

I wouldn’t put in Evers or Tinker, personally.

Baines and Lloyd Waner are hard to top in my book as the worst choices. As I understand it Tommy McCarthy was inducted more for his inventive plays and innovations and role as the anti-Oriole when baseball was getting a thuggish reputation. A lot of the bad picks were elected for reasons other than the numbers we are looking at. Baines wasn’t, and Waner was because he hit .300 and his brother was great.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by G1911

The list is just sorting by WAR rate, but I agree. WAR absolutely hates Traynor, and there may be a lesson that he’s been overrated, but I have a hard time seeing how he isn’t a hall of famer at all by the standards of his time and his election time.

I wouldn’t put in Evers or Tinker, personally.

Baines and Lloyd Waner are hard to top in my book as the worst choices. As I understand it Tommy McCarthy was inducted more for his inventive plays and innovations and role as the anti-Oriole when baseball was getting a thuggish reputation. A lot of the bad picks were elected for reasons other than the numbers we are looking at. Baines wasn’t, and Waner was because he hit .300 and his brother was great.

I think Tinker, Evers, and Chance are all UNDERRATED.

The Cubs were a powerhouse with them and then became losers after they left. Also, Evers went to the Braves and was the MVP of the whole league and helped that sorry franchise win the WS.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I think Tinker, Evers, and Chance are all UNDERRATED.

The Cubs were a powerhouse with them and then became losers after they left. Also, Evers went to the Braves and was the MVP of the whole league and helped that sorry franchise win the WS.

Don’t think it has more to do with the pitching staff leaving or falling apart then too? I don’t see a mathematical argument for Evers. Perhaps I am missing something. He’s slightly above league average at the plate, excellent glove. I’m not seeing much to make a HOFer, using the modern analytics or the traditional. Tinkers bat was below league average. I personally don’t find poetic/romantic arguments compelling and I don’t see one besides this.

Chance was a regular for like 6 years, but he gets major points for his managerial success and I’m fine with him overall. If a player only, he’s an egregious choice.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by paul

I'd take Pie Traynor off the list. Until Brooks Robinson's performance in the 1970 World Series, Traynor was almost universally ranked as the greatest third baseman of all time. Everyone couldn't have been that wrong for so long.

There was that long-forgotten guy in between Pie and Brooks who was always touted as the greatest defensive 3B of his era. Many who saw him actually said he was the best, and many of those also saw Traynor! See my username.

I have a handwritten letter written to me from none other than that wonderful man, Brooksie, letting me know that he concurred about Cox' prowess (although Brooks would have never seen Cox in his prime as far as I know).

[Mike D.]

Just interested on Sutter...do people think that relievers other than the top few shouldn't go in, or that there are more deserving closers than Sutter NOT in, or both?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

There was that long-forgotten guy in between Pie and Brooks who was always touted as the greatest defensive 3B of his era. Many who saw him actually said he was the best, and many of those also saw Traynor! See my username.

I have a handwritten letter written to me from none other than that wonderful man, Brooksie, letting me know that he concurred about Cox' prowess (although Brooks would have never seen Cox in his prime as far as I know).

I saw Billy play at Ebbets Field a couple of times in the '50's. He played a mean 'hot corner'. There were a couple of rifle arms playing with Brooklyn in those days; Billy and Carl Furillo.
Ebbets is now a project and not a very nice one.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I saw Billy play at Ebbets Field a couple of times in the '50's. He played a mean 'hot corner'. There were a couple of rifle arms playing with Brooklyn in those days; Billy and Carl Furillo.
Ebbets is now a project and not a very nice one.

Two incredibly gifted Pennsylvania boys. Billy let his arm do the talking; Carl should have taken from Cox' example!

You're so lucky to have seen them play; I had the misfortune of being born too late and too far away. I did visit the Jackie Robinson Housing Project about 30 years ago; it wasn't too bad at that time, although the surrounding neighborhood was pretty dangerous.

While I never did get a chance to meet Billy, I did speak with his widow and became good buddies with his closest lifelong friend.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Two incredibly gifted Pennsylvania boys. Billy let his arm do the talking; Carl should have taken from Cox' example!

You're so lucky to have seen them play; I had the misfortune of being born too late and too far away. I did visit the Jackie Robinson Housing Project about 30 years ago; it wasn't too bad at that time, although the surrounding neighborhood was pretty dangerous.

While I never did get a chance to meet Billy, I did speak with his widow and became good buddies with his closest lifelong friend.

I do remember well one play that encapsulated both Billy and Carl, who I heard ended up being a janitor in a building. If so, how sad. I think the Dodgers were playing the Phillies and Ashburn hit a long single into the right corner of Ebbets. The next batter hit another deep single between center and right. Ashburn decided to go to 3rd, Carl made a nice backhanded pickup and rifled the ball to Billy who easily tagged out Ritchie.
They both made it look so easy and natural.

I literally cried when O'Mally moved 'Dem Bums' to LA. I think my mother had to console me. If you lived in the NY area in the 50's, it was a Golden Age for baseball. Right, Ted?

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911-

1) Regarding overrated, I'll call upon the wisdom of Inigo Montoya-
"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it
means".

2) Funny you mention hagiographies. At least mine would be of someone
worthy of it as a player and a person, rather than of myself as you are
so humbly attempting...

3) Of course two things can be true at once, you dolt. The problem is that
your two aren't both true. What color is the sky in your world?

Go away! Trent King

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

G1911-

1) Regarding overrated, I'll call upon the wisdom of Inigo Montoya-
"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it
means".

2) Funny you mention hagiographies. At least mine would be of someone
worthy of it as a player and a person, rather than of myself as you are
so humbly attempting...

3) Of course two things can be true at once, you dolt. The problem is that
your two aren't both true. What color is the sky in your world?

Go away! Trent King

Thanks for the daily dose of batshit insanity. Again. How many times do you want to do this weird thing before you just grow up, kid?

[Mike D.]

The list is imperfect but interesting. I don't know that WAR and stat line per 162 games are very good measurements of a Hall of Famer, especially those that didn't play 162 game seasons, but to each his own.

What's interesting about the list is how much it skews "old timer". People always talk about the Hall of Fame like the Hall of Fame standard is going DOWN, but in reality, it's been trending UP for a few decades.

Just as not every Hall of Famer elected today isn't a "inner circle" Hall of Famer, most Hall of Famers historically also aren't "inner circle".

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

The list is imperfect but interesting. I don't know that WAR and stat line per 162 games are very good measurements of a Hall of Famer, especially those that didn't play 162 game seasons, but to each his own.

What's interesting about the list is how much it skews "old timer". People always talk about the Hall of Fame like the Hall of Fame standard is going DOWN, but in reality, it's been trending UP for a few decades.

Just as not every Hall of Famer elected today isn't a "inner circle" Hall of Famer, most Hall of Famers historically also aren't "inner circle".

I think we were doing really good until a few years ago; selections were getting better and better but the last few years we’ve had a lot of highly questionable selections from the era committees. I think the writers have pretty much always picked deserving candidates on the whole. The Fritsch committee period and it’s open corruption was probably the worst; I give a lot more leeway in context for the 1950’s selections of 19th century players. The research industry in baseball wasn’t really a thing then, they had limited information and most of them aren’t terrible selections on the whole.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by G1911

I think we were doing really good until a few years ago; selections were getting better and better but the last few years we’ve had a lot of highly questionable selections from the era committees. I think the writers have pretty much always picked deserving candidates on the whole. The Fritsch committee period and it’s open corruption was probably the worst; I give a lot more leeway in context for the 1950’s selections of 19th century players. The research industry in baseball wasn’t really a thing then, they had limited information and most of them aren’t terrible selections on the whole.

I think the most egregious part of the whole Baines fiasco was that it was basically a carbon copy of the "bad old days" Fritsch committee. Baines get voted in by a closed door committee that just happens to have a former owner and a former manager from Baines playing days on it.

There have been some borderline selection of late, although other than Baines, I can't think of that truly offend me. Even the year Jack Morris got in, Alan Trammell did too. I remember thinking "I'll take that trade" at the time.

[bigfanNY]

Baines is the guy I an issue with. But I have more issues with this list. Pie Traynor was on a number of all time great teams as late as the 70's ( rold gold / kelloggs all time greats). Waner lifetime 316 hitter hit over 350 3 times and was a gold glove level center fielder. Catfish was a Great pitcher for some great teams. Teams that don't win world series without him. Tough to judge so many different era's with WAR.
JMHO
J

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I think the most egregious part of the whole Baines fiasco was that it was basically a carbon copy of the "bad old days" Fritsch committee. Baines get voted in by a closed door committee that just happens to have a former owner and a former manager from Baines playing days on it.

There have been some borderline selection of late, although other than Baines, I can't think of that truly offend me. Even the year Jack Morris got in, Alan Trammell did too. I remember thinking "I'll take that trade" at the time.

The three worst picks of the 21st century are, I think, Baines, Morris, Effa Manley and Sutter. I disagree with some others, but those were the ones that seemed dubious.

The corruption that seems readily apparent in Baines’ pick really helps make it stand out, and I think has a lot to do with why people were particularly unhappy with that one. Fritsch hurt his own legacy by shoveling a dozen or more picks like Baines of his pals.

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911-

1) your attempts at "logic" are even weaker than normal. No meds today?

2) you're the kid in this relationship, Chief. I'm guessing 35 years old,
frustrated former athlete? Pretty close? Yeah...

3) I noticed you have flatly failed to weigh in on the actual topic of worst
HOFer. Wonder why that is?

4) Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a life. In my mind, you are more of a
Miniature Pinscher than an actual Doberman, and you are way off base
(again) when it comes to basic reading comprehension and staying
on point. Maybe you need another hobby?

Trent King

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

G1911-

1) your attempts at "logic" are even weaker than normal. No meds today?

2) you're the kid in this relationship, Chief. I'm guessing 35 years old,
frustrated former athlete? Pretty close? Yeah...

3) I noticed you have flatly failed to weigh in on the actual topic of worst
HOFer. Wonder why that is?

4) Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a life. In my mind, you are more of a
Miniature Pinscher than an actual Doberman, and you are way off base
(again) when it comes to basic reading comprehension and staying
on point. Maybe you need another hobby?

Trent King

I have weighed in. Go read again. Can you just stop this bullshit and vaguely behave? I get you have a hate boner for me, but I don’t really care and I don’t know why you need to spam the board with it. You aren’t “staying on point” you aren’t too good for this because you have a life, because this is like the fifth time you’ve started this out of nowhere. Grow up.