Watch out for a Scammer(s) on the Board!

[pcoz]

Everyone, please watch out for Scammers on the Board!! I recently posted on the B/S/T I was looking for an E94 Wagner to buy, and was contacted on my private gmail. The scammer offered me a card to purchase that I found out later wasn't his, and wanted payment in Zelle or PayPal friends/family. Thankfully, the card he showed me was amazingly the card of a good friend of mine, so I quickly tried to cancel my payments, which he wanted multiple ways to different email recipients. I should've known better, and in today's world, been more aware of the fishy way he wanted the payments. I've had a ton of successful transactions on the Board over the years, so I didn't think twice about this one. That being said, I was unsuccessful with recapturing my Zelle payment, as that goes directly to the recipient immediately. Still waiting to hear on the others through Paypal. So, do not use Zelle or PayPal friends/familyunless unless your funds are going to your closest friends or family, . Pay the 3% through PayPal for goods/services if you use PayPal for your protection. He posed under the name of John Gray. I suspect he will use further anonymous names, and this technique will be used to scam others by others, so please be on alert!!

[Directly]

F/F PayPal money already in someone account once transferred-was told by PayPal--few years ago at the National I was on the hunt for a Goudy Gehrig. Found one was short on the balance so transferred the dealer 1,000. My mistake I enter the wrong user name--money went to someone else I never knew--when I returned home I had a email asking why I sent him 1,000?--there are honest people left in this world he sent me my 1,000 back through PayPal--yes pay extra for goods and services, unless its someone you know--good luck on getting a refund, but I wouldn't hold my breath--

[chalupacollects]

Call your bank and tell them it was fraud...

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by Directly

PayPal--yes pay extra for goods and services, unless its someone you know

This 100%. I think I've paid via F&F one time across all platforms/social media for trading cards and that was on here to an individual who has an impeccable standing on here. Aside from that, I stick with G&S while buying or selling. Only time I use F&F is when I pay my brother-in-law for his yearly fantasy league or if I'm paying a friend back if we're splitting a dinner bill or something.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Call your bank and tell them it was fraud...

Won't do any good with Zelle. That money is gone once it's transacted.
.

[Casey2296]

Sorry to hear that happened Pete, hope you can get resolution. It's been posted before but is always a good reminder. Vet the seller, if he is a new member with very few posts ask for references or PM Leon, don't post your email in the BST listing, go though the net54 messaging system first.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Sorry to hear that happened Pete, hope you can get resolution. It's been posted before but is always a good reminder. Vet the seller, if he is a new member with very few posts ask for references or PM Leon, don't post your email in the BST listing, go though the net54 messaging system first.

And always, always ask for their Net54 id so we can vet them. And be careful, they could give a good id but not be that person. One time a fraudster impersonated SB1 to me. But his name wasn't Scott !! I guess he didn't know I have known Scott for around 25 yrs...
.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

It appears that most of these scammers reach out via email vs. Net54 PM. Would it perhaps seem like a good idea to eliminate the direct contact via email feature? I'm honestly curious, does it serve any beneficial purpose, anyway? If email info needs to be exchanged, it can be done so via PM, but if not, eliminating the "Send an email to ___" feature might be a small, preventative wall between the scammers and their marks. I do know that this option is incorporated into the usual software that the site employs, so not sure how easy/difficult it would be to remove. Maybe there's something I'm missing and my idea has less merit than I think; just trying to help.

Also, it would obviously be a great idea for prospective buyers to not include their emails anywhere in their posts. Again, if and when this info needs to be exchanged, it can be done so privately at any time. In a similar vein, would it not be a wise idea to eliminate personal email addresses in the Vintage Links section at this point? That section of the site seems rather antiquated from a 2022 perspective; an email contact list harkens back to the internet of the 1990's. All of those people can still be contacted through PM, so no sense in providing scammers with easy options.

[pcoz]

Good advice Phil, thanks. I called PayPal, and they said they can only interact if the payment was made through goods/services, not friends/family. Since it was not an unauthorized payment, although a fraudulent transaction, there's nothing they can do. Leon you're right about Zelle, that's why he asked for my payment first to come that way, as it's an immediate and no recourse transfer of funds. Lesson learned the hard way.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pcoz

Good advice Phil, thanks. I called PayPal, and they said they can only interact if the payment was made through goods/services, not friends/family. Since it was not an unauthorized payment, although a fraudulent transaction, there's nothing they can do. Leon you're right about Zelle, that's why he asked for my payment first to come that way, as it's an immediate and no recourse transfer of funds. Lesson learned the hard way.

Really sorry to hear that, Pete. We have had countless discussions, on the front page, about scammers over the last year to the point I almost locked some of the threads. I am a little surprised you never saw one of them. They were very popular sometimes. I hate these kinds of learning lessons. I get them from time to time and they are never fun.
.

[pcoz]

Thanks Leon, I should've been more aware knowing this happens and how the world can be at times. It wasn't a super expensive lesson learned, but still not too much fun. Apologize if this was a redundant thread topic, I somehow missed seeing them over the past year.

[BobC]

Though you can't get the money back through Zelle, have you at least tried asking them for the contact info, address, etc., of the person you sent the money to? Since Zelle is a bank-to-bank transfer, the party had to open an account with some bank and give them the necessary info to open it. And if they refuse, ask them if it is better for you to contact local police or federal authorities (assuming the money crossed state lines) so they know they will be contacted by the authorities if they refuse to be cooperate with you, and then do follow up and actually contact and report the fraud/theft to the appropriate authorities.

You might get lucky and actually be able to get some real info on the person that did this to you, and likely others. But don't hold your breath. It is sickening given our modern society and modern technology how easy it is for people to open accounts using fake or stolen info, and is a testament to how lazy businesses truly are in allowing criminals to so easily open such fake accounts. The complicity of businesses in making it so easy for someone to get ripped off is appalling, and they should be held to account for such reckless aiding and abetting. Sadly, they are not though.

Sorry to hear you got taken.

[pcoz]

Thanks Bob, I will ask them if they can find out and share the bank information. I have the name of the person and their email, but I'm not sure the bank account that my funds went into is the person who scammed me. Thanks for the suggestion.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by pcoz

Thanks Bob, I will ask them if they can find out and share the bank information. I have the name of the person and their email, but I'm not sure the bank account that my funds went into is the person who scammed me. Thanks for the suggestion.

That is the problem/issue, if the scammers can somehow dupe others into aiding their schemes, or they can somehow hack and take over accounts. Zelle is a little different from typical payment platforms like Paypal or Venmo. It is actually ultimately owned and operated by several major US banks, such as Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, and Wells Fargo, and involves transfer of money right from one person's bank account directly to another person's bank account, without having to go through any intermediary account, like with Paypal. That is also why payments made through Zelle are not subject to federal tax reporting via 1099 forms.

And since the transfers are directly to someone's actual bank account, you would think/hope the bank opening that account would have done at least a little work to properly vet the party that opened the account, and make sure they are a real person, and that they actually are who they said they are. I know the younger generations are all about ease, and doing things remotely and online, but cracking down to make people physically show up, at least initially, with proper and adequate photo IDs and such to open and start new accounts or commence business activity, would at least be a start to possibly reducing some of the illegal things being perpetrated by such criminals and scammers.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Sorry to hear that happened Pete, hope you can get resolution. It's been posted before but is always a good reminder. Vet the seller, if he is a new member with very few posts ask for references or PM Leon, don't post your email in the BST listing, go though the net54 messaging system first.

Agreed and well said.
Sadly any one of us this could happen to.

[Leon]

Another member just emailed me with sb1 wanting to sell him a card. His name isn't Scott though....total scam.
.

[obcmac]

The first clue was being offered the card you wanted at a fair price...so rarely happens ;-) If someone wants to throw a middy bread southworth my way, I can pay in apple gift cards.

Mac

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Sadly any one of us this could happen to.

+1, but I will say and reiterate what others have said. Take the advice, check this stuff carefully before you pull the trigger on any deal.

[oldjudge]

Pete--Sorry to hear that both for you and for the honest people who use the BST.

[anchorednw]

I recently posted that was looking for some 49 Bowman cards and a user reached out to me and said he had one in a low grade and told me to email him for photos, negotiation, etc.

I did, and the guy reached out to me, and we arrived at a price and I paid him $450 PP F&F for said card.

He said great, will ship the card, etc, however now a few days later he is asking for more $ and said, "couldn't meet up with the budget with that $450, I will like you to add $70 more to it as I am very low on budget right now."

So clearly, I have been scammed, so we can save the "you got scammed responses", lol. My question is what if anything can I do?

This all happened a few days ago and obviously I will blow him up here on Net54, but any other suggestions, advice (besides do better due diligence next time, sorry for your loss of $450"?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

I recently posted that was looking for some 49 Bowman cards and a user reached out to me and said he had one in a low grade and told me to email him for photos, negotiation, etc.

I did, and the guy reached out to me, and we arrived at a price and I paid him $450 PP F&F for said card.

He said great, will ship the card, etc, however now a few days later he is asking for more $ and said, "couldn't meet up with the budget with that $450, I will like you to add $70 more to it as I am very low on budget right now."

So clearly, I have been scammed, so we can save the "you got scammed responses", lol. My question is what if anything can I do?

This all happened a few days ago and obviously I will blow him up here on Net54, but any other suggestions, advice (besides do better due diligence next time, sorry for your loss of $450"?

Hey Brian
That sucks and sorry it happened. With PP FF I doubt there is anything you can do.
One question. Have you not seen any of the multiple threads about scammers, almost weekly if not daily, on the forum?
.

[NiceDocter]

Brian…. sorry that happened to you. If you use regular PayPal goods and services ( and as additional protection use a credit card for PayPal payment) it will cost you just a bit more but then you are protected. PayPal gifts could still be something you may have recourse with IF you used a credit card and could dispute the charge with them. Scammers do make me angry. The dark side of capitalism.

[Casey2296]

Hey Brian, was the scammer a member here? Always a good idea to check with Leon if the member is new or has very few comnents.

[anchorednw]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Hey Brian, was the scammer a member here? Always a good idea to check with Leon if the member is new or has very few comnents.

Yes, he was a member here. My largest mistake was seeing he had no comments or posts. Ugh!

[Yoda]

Speaking of scammers, check out the listing by zami _5641 for a beautiful '33 Goudey Dean.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

Yes, he was a member here. My largest mistake was seeing he had no comments or posts. Ugh!

The first thing was that his username wasn't immediately recognizable from reading forum posts. No posts/low post count/recent join date all combine to form the second point. Wanting payment via anything but a method that protects you, the buyer, is your third takeaway.

Paying via F&F or any other unsafe method is only acceptable via people with whom trust has already been built up, or if several other people you know will vouch for them, or if they are known throughout the industry as being reputable. Some people say that they don't mind taking the chance with F&F-type payments when it's under $X amount. I've fallen into that camp myself and have come away unscathed but for a time or two. Remember that the scammers know that many people feel that way, so will try their hand at a bunch of dime store antics instead of larger transactions. Anything to part someone with even a smidgen of money. Sad.

I don't understand how people keep falling for this stuff. (Because it's 2022 and everyone gets offended by everything, I'm forced to say that this last comment is not victim shaming; it's the product of repeated frustration over the whole matter.)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

Yes, he was a member here. My largest mistake was seeing he had no comments or posts. Ugh!

We all make mistakes. I make them everyday. Please do check with me. You can't be too safe. I generally get back with folks pretty quickly too.

Sometimes I make the same one multiple times. The more expensive they are the less likely I am to make them again, but I still have.
.

[Jim65]

It sucks that people continue to go through this. Protect yourself, pay the extra for G&S, if you send F&F to someone you don't know, you might as well mail cash in an envelope.

[Fred]

Just curious, does anybody at least try to check N54 references before going through with larger BST transactions?

If someone asked me for a hobby reference (or references) because of a large transaction, I wouldn't be offended. To me, it's the other person being cautious and smart.

What do people think is the best way to conduct business in the BST? What would be considered the "best practices"?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just curious, does anybody at least try to check N54 references before going through with larger BST transactions?

If someone asked me for a hobby reference (or references) because of a large transaction, I wouldn't be offended. To me, it's the other person being cautious and smart.

What do people think is the best way to conduct business in the BST? What would be considered the "best practices"?

I recently closed a 4K plus transaction with a long time member who I haven't done business with, as a precaution I messaged Leon to confirm good standing, I hope he did the same with me.

[jpittman765]

The scam posts have been enlightening and disappointing. I have both sold and purchased t206 cards here using PayPal F & F, albeit for modest sums. I am relatively new to collecting (2 years) and have found the vintage card community to be full of great people. I imagine I will need to change my approach to be more cautious, but that will be disappointing in itself.


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