Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Can you spot the red flag?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22518833606...0AAOSwNOBjOgXz

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Can you spot the red flag?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22518833606...0AAOSwNOBjOgXz

I can’t….but, then again, I pay no attention to D**gers stuff.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Can you spot the red flag?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22518833606...0AAOSwNOBjOgXz

Fake spine. Looking at the stitching....

A. The vertical stitches are way too small/close together for Trench

B. The horizontal stitching at top and bottom of spine does not allow for a stick to go through

Trench never sewed them like this (nor did anyone else that I'm aware of).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Fake spine. Looking at the stitching....

A. The vertical stitches are way too small/close together for Trench

B. The horizontal stitching at top and bottom of spine does not allow for a stick to go through

Trench never sewed them like this (nor did anyone else that I'm aware of).

Yep. You got it. Also I’m not sure this is cloth. The printing looks different, as if it is rubberized so that it wouldn’t crack. I think this pennant was reproduced at some point and this is one of them.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yep. You got it. Also I’m not sure this is cloth. The printing looks different, as if it is rubberized so that it wouldn’t crack. I think this pennant was reproduced at some point and this is one of them.

Wow, that is scary good. Who in the world would have the capability to make something like this, and for what purpose? Would it be worth their while to make just one, and if there were more than one, wouldn't you experts have spotted them coming out on the market? On the other hand, M&N and others have put out some realistic repro/fantasy pennants, so I guess the technology is available. But I'm amazed someone could think they could get away with faking these and go to the trouble of doing it to make a few bucks. Of course, as we've seen in cards and autographs, where there's money to be made, anything's possible, so why not memorabilia, too?

[perezfan]

Good questions and observations, Hank!

Looking at the first picture of the full pennant, I can definitely see some puckering and cracking of the scroll portion. I am not sure about the "rubberized" graphics theory, as a result. Plus, all of his other pennants for sale are authentic. I know there are reproductions of this pennant, but think this one is authentic with a replaced spine.

I have seen countless pennants where the body of the pennant is perfect, but the spine has multiple moth nips and holes. For some reason, the bugs seemed to favor the spine portion for their "meal".

To me, it makes the most sense that this pennant was nicely stored away for most of its life (which would explain the lack of wear), but that moths got to the spine. I think someone replaced the spine at some point, and the "seamstress" simply didn't properly replicate the original style of stitching.

[murphusa]

College Basketball

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by murphusa

College Basketball

Gorgeous!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by murphusa

College Basketball

That same graphic appears on a fairly highly coveted late 60's Lew Alcindor pennant. Used to sell for in excess of $200 but there was a recent find of 20 or so. Not sure if that had any impact on sale price. Whoever has them hasn't flooded the market with them so maybe not.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Good questions and observations, Hank!

Looking at the first picture of the full pennant, I can definitely see some puckering and cracking of the scroll portion. I am not sure about the "rubberized" graphics theory, as a result. Plus, all of his other pennants for sale are authentic. I know there are reproductions of this pennant, but think this one is authentic with a replaced spine.

I have seen countless pennants where the body of the pennant is perfect, but the spine has multiple moth nips and holes. For some reason, the bugs seemed to favor the spine portion for their "meal".

To me, it makes the most sense that this pennant was nicely stored away for most of its life (which would explain the lack of wear), but that moths got to the spine. I think someone replaced the spine at some point, and the "seamstress" simply didn't properly replicate the original style of stitching.

The seller is a good guy, I have bought from him before. I think it’s a genuine mistake. These are very good repros. I’ve seen these before. Below are pics of the scroll on (a) authentic and (b) the one in question. There are clear differences. (I have three of these and the scrolls all match.) You can see it with “ALSTON, Mgr.” and the alignment of “NEWCOMBE and WALKER” for example. Mark, I see the puckering you see but I think that’s from the material bring felt and not thin smooth cloth. I don’t see any cracking.

So that doesn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it isn’t circa 1955, just that it’s a different screen, and I’m not sure why there would be two different with the same names … just my opinion

[thetahat]

Here are a couple other versions of the ebay pennant, note the similar stitching and the use of blue threading on the back (which should be red). The third link is to an authentic '55. Can also see a difference with respect to the placement of the year.

https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=88844

https://www.josportsinc.com/products...mpions-pennant

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16566251892...4AAOSwOY1jF3j1