Wainwright in the hall?

[ALR-bishop]

Agree with above, and maybe not Molins either but what wonderful careers together and all with the same team.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Agree with above, and maybe not Molins either but what wonderful careers together and all with the same team.

Wow, negative against Molina? In my book I agree with statements on Waino. But I'd hope Yadi gets in - although he might not be first ballot. I'm looking at him on Jaws, and he is one of the top of this generation, with a resume a bit better than Buster Posey. He (42 WAR) and Posey (44 WAR) are very close in WAR. I know a lot of catchers don't make the HOF, but this would be a shame. Jorge Posada is comparable to both, but he was never better than Piazza or Ivan Rodriguez.

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[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by todeen

Wow, negative against Molina? In my book I agree with statements on Waino. But I'd hope Yadi gets in - although he might not be first ballot. I'm looking at him on Jaws, and he is one of the top of this generation, with a resume a bit better than Buster Posey. He (42 WAR) and Posey (44 WAR) are very close in WAR. I know a lot of catchers don't make the HOF, but this would be a shame. Jorge Posada is comparable to both, but he was never better than Piazza or Ivan Rodriguez.

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Love Posada. Under-rated offensively as a catcher. 5 Silver Sluggers at his position. Unfortunately, not a great reputation defensively...though he wasn't horrible. Just kind of mediocre. He was great at handling pitching staffs, even if he didn't have the greatest arm to gun down base runners.

Not a HOF'er...but as borderline as a catcher can get IMO.

[packs]

Posada's situation has always bothered me. He was a really great offensive catcher. He's 9th in career home runs at the position. He played at a time when only Pudge and Piazza were better than him (two players who had cheating rumors follow them during their careers).

It's a crime he was one and done on the ballot. I don't know that he was a HOFer but he was a lot better than 99.9% of all one and done players and deserved more respect.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

Posada's situation has always bothered me. He was a really great offensive catcher. He's 9th in career home runs at the position. He played at a time when only Pudge and Piazza were better than him (two players who had cheating rumors follow them during their careers).

It's a crime he was one and done on the ballot. I don't know that he was a HOFer but he was a lot better than 99.9% of all one and done players and deserved more respect.

Those Yankee teams were so great, because they had a lot of guys that were not quite HOF'ers, but pretty damn good when you put them on a team with a bunch of other not quite HOF'ers and actual HOF'ers. (Bernie, Petitte, Posada, O'Neill, Tino Martinez, Cone, Wells, etc..)

[packs]

Bernie was another guy who I feel doesn’t get the respect he has coming. He only survived two votes. His raw stats are there but I also think he had a you had to see him play aspect to him. Such a great player to watch every day. Not sure what the Hall saw in Baines that it doesn’t see in Bernie. Even Baines made it to six votes.

[G1911]

IP:
Halladay: 2,749.1
Wainwright: 2,562.2

Record:
Halladay 203-105
Wainwright 195-116

ERA+, ERA, FIP:
Halladay: 131, 3.38, 3.39
Wainwright: 119, 3.36, 3.44

K/9, BB/9, H/9:
Halladay: 6.9, 1.9, 8.7
Wainwright: 7.5, 2.4, 8.5

WAR:
Halladay: 64.2
Wainwright: 47.1

So WAR loves Halladay, but they are really very similar for a career and WAR has a whole lot of value judgements that are arbitrary. ERA+ prefers Halladay in context, everything else is very close. I don't think this comparison should be dismissed out of hand.

Do I think Wainwright is a HOFer? No.
Do I think Halladay should be a HOFer? Probably just misses, really pushing it.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

Bernie was another guy who I feel doesn’t get the respect he has coming. He only survived two votes. His raw stats are there but I also think he had a you had to see him play aspect to him. Such a great player to watch every day. Not sure what the Hall saw in Baines that it doesn’t see in Bernie. Even Baines made it to six votes.

Bernie gets absolutely torched by his Defensive WAR evaluation. Like a lot of Yankees during that time period, he absolutely passed the eye test in defensively. Rarely made mistakes, but he didn't have much of an arm, and like Jeter, the metrics hated him, even when it looked like he was doing everything he was supposed to be doing out there.