Article about Collecting and Fraud in the Hobby

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

The difference is that none of this is what PWCC did. PWCC's ring was not engaged in borderline conduct. They very clearly and intentionally altered cards, snuck them past the graders (at best), and then sold them without disclosure of their severe alterations, cutting away parts of the original item. They did remove fingerprint smudges to spawn this controversy.

I don't think a slippery slope changes this. Am I guilty of speeding if I'm going 65.1? Is that really worse than 64.9? Am I really doing wrong? Does it matter when what I'm actually being accused of is going 112?

I agree that this is very unlikely to ever actually go to court, but I'm really not seeing a real argument how running an alteration ring and selling items on provably false grounds is not actually fraud.

You're not seeing one because there isn't one. If the BS posted by Snowman is the best the defenders can do, that's really lame.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You're not seeing one because there isn't one. If the BS posted by Snowman is the best the defenders can do, that's really lame.

I never expected people to really stop doing business with PWCC no matter how many mountains of evidence the Blowout gents uncovered. I did, naively, think people would stop publicly trying to claim they didn't really do anything wrong, it's arbitrary after all.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I never expected people to really stop doing business with PWCC no matter how many mountains of evidence the Blowout gents uncovered. I did, naively, think people would stop publicly trying to claim they didn't really do anything wrong, it's arbitrary after all.

Textbook slippery slope -- I can come up with an extreme example that doesn't fit your thesis, therefore your thesis is entirely invalid.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Textbook slippery slope -- I can come up with an extreme example that doesn't fit your thesis, therefore your thesis is entirely invalid.

It wouldn't be an internet thread without one!

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

I never expected people to really stop doing business with PWCC no matter how many mountains of evidence the Blowout gents uncovered. I did, naively, think people would stop publicly trying to claim they didn't really do anything wrong, it's arbitrary after all.

I would venture to say PWCC lost a substantial amount of business/buyers and consignors since being exposed and removed from ebay.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I would venture to say PWCC lost a substantial amount of business/buyers and consignors since being exposed and removed from ebay.

It doesn't seem to stop them from selling a ton of cards for high prices. Some surely did stop working with them, but they retain a very strong customer base and certainly aren't really blacklisted by hobbyists.