Roger Clemens - Where does he rank?

[Seven]

Pound for pound I think he was one of the greatest pitchers the game has ever seen. Few can argue the dominance of his early years with the Red Sox, and then later on with the Blue Jays. He wasn't too shabby for the Yankees and Astros either. His Longevity was very impressive.

PED's are practically a nonfactor in my book. Too Many players have taken them, and few have achieved the greatness of someone like Bonds or Clemens. I also think you can't draw a line in the sand, and say "well some cheating is ok, others aren't"

Are we going to ignore the bowls of Greenies in the clubhouses? Aaron, Mays and Mantle all admitted to trying it at least once. In many peoples opinions, even once should disqualify someones chances. Babe Ruth took sheep testosterone, is that alright? Or what about Koufax abusing painkillers to pitch his last few seasons? Is that okay?

The knock against taking PED's is that it's wrong, and reflects poorly on a persons character. But if you bring up a players character, we enter the territory where there was a smattering of players who were racists, wife beaters, degenerate gamblers, etc. Clemens was a great pitcher, one of the best I've ever seen.

[drcy]

If there's nothing wrong or cheating about it, then why doe Clemens (and others) deny it?

Obviously, Clemens (and others) disagree with you, or they'd say "Yes, I took PEDs. So what?"

Originally Posted by Seven

Pound for pound I think he was one of the greatest pitchers the game has ever seen. Few can argue the dominance of his early years with the Red Sox, and then later on with the Blue Jays. He wasn't too shabby for the Yankees and Astros either. His Longevity was very impressive.

PED's are practically a nonfactor in my book. Too Many players have taken them, and few have achieved the greatness of someone like Bonds or Clemens. I also think you can't draw a line in the sand, and say "well some cheating is ok, others aren't"

Are we going to ignore the bowls of Greenies in the clubhouses? Aaron, Mays and Mantle all admitted to trying it at least once. In many peoples opinions, even once should disqualify someones chances. Babe Ruth took sheep testosterone, is that alright? Or what about Koufax abusing painkillers to pitch his last few seasons? Is that okay?

The knock against taking PED's is that it's wrong, and reflects poorly on a persons character. But if you bring up a players character, we enter the territory where there was a smattering of players who were racists, wife beaters, degenerate gamblers, etc. Clemens was a great pitcher, one of the best I've ever seen.

[G1911]

I don’t think the knock on PED’s is that they reflect poorly on character. It’s that they give a huge performance advantage and allowed a generation to put up video game statistics, unlike greenies, energy drinks or Babe Ruth’s hot dogs.