Roger Clemens - Where does he rank?

[mrreality68]

He deserves to be up there depending on how you judge him and the steroid allegations.

The HOF voters have spoken and made their opinion known.

It is a shame he was amazing in his time

[clydepepper]

#1 cheatingest pitcher.


and a d*ck.


.

[G1911]

If he was clean, 1-4 range.

But he wasn’t clean. If his career ends after 1995 before he goes to Toronto and apparently starts using, reigniting and turning his career around, he has an astounding 144 ERA+, but only 2,700 innings and a 192-111 record. He chalked up another 2,100 innings at essentially the same performance level while using.

Steroids aren’t magic, they won’t make any pitcher able to do what Clemens did. He probably doesn’t deserve to have his entire second half wiped out completely. He probably doesn’t deserve full credit either, the steroids shouldn’t be dismissed entirely. I don’t know how to account for a middle ground here on any reasonable basis that isn’t completely arbitrary. I would probably put him 10-20th, on that arbitrary balance.

[butchie_t]

Once he juiced, he gets no consideration for anything.

And that goes for all the juicers. Any 'records' set in a juiced condition are tainted and simply do not count. I can get behind these changes to MLB if they had the balls to implement and enforce them.

Butch

[isiahfan]

Didn't realize that Maddux was slightly ahead in IP...wouldn't have guessed that. I think it is right on the rankings...or close to it. Obviously hard to compare against vastly different eras...where guys pitched double headers and usually complete games. I don't think there is anyone I would take over him other than WaJo though.

[bnorth]

He is #1 and it really isn't all that close.

As for the cheating. They all cheated in any way they could, some got caught, some didn't, and then there are those that cheated that get a free pass.

[Rad_Hazard]

I go back and forth on 1 and 2. WaJo is probably the pick for 1, but damn if Cy isn't extremely convincing. Those numbers are incredible and he dominated 2 different eras.

As for Clemens I do think 3 is the right spot after some more thought. Steroids or no, Clemens and Bonds did things that us mere mortals couldn't dream of.