1912 T207 PSA Population Report

[rand1com]

What is considered the toughest card/back version in the set disregarding Red Cross backs?

[RCMcKenzie]

With 145 known backs, are Napoleon backs thought to be complete at 150?

I thought I read that ANON 3 could be found on every subject. Is there a confirmed list for ANON 3? Is it thought to mirror the Napoleon checklist?

Both backs are hard to find. I have a small collection of about 15 Napoleon and 10-12 Anon 3. I guess I should check to see what I have. I will report back.

[Bridwell]

There are 99 different players known with Anon 3 backs. 50 are from the Broadleaf/Cycle players and 49 from the Recruit/Napoleon players. I haven't seen an official list, but I have a sample of all 99 on the Anon 3 cards. There are 150 Recruit players so probably those same 150 can be found with Napoleon backs. Some of the Anon 3 back players and Napoleon back cards are the rarest since only 1 or 2 examples are known of a few of them. If you send me the list of the 10-12 Anon 3's you have, I can let you know if you have any that I don't have.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks for the info, Ron. I'll look and post what I have tomorrow. I doubt I have anything new, because all were bought in the last 15 years at sportscard auctions and a few on eBay.

I'm thinking I may start over with Cycle backs, because x/50 is more realistic for me to finish.

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's what I have for ANON 3. All are Broadleaf/Cycle series except for Kling, which is from Recruit/Napoleon. Old Cardboard has a checklist for the B/C or R/N series. I'm guessing if 99 ANON 3 are known, then 1 is missing. Do we know which one should be eventually found?

Phelan, E Moore, Otto Miller, V Gregg, Kutina, O Wilson, J Ryan, Kirke, Donnelly, Kling, Tyler

[frohme]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

[...]
I'm guessing if 99 ANON 3 are known, then 1 is missing. Do we know which one should be eventually found?
[...]

This has been a topic of some conversation since (as far as I'm aware) Tim N first hypothesized - in VCBC 38 I believe - that there would be 50 Recruit-class cards found with the anon 3 back (though he only had 22 listed from his survey). As Ron says, there are 49 known (list below). Some of the "harder" Recruit-class T207's are not represented in the list, and are the most common supposition. Of these, Ellis seems the most natural candidate. I believe the 49 number only came to be reached with the Heritage lot(s) auctioned in Oct 2012.

(esoterica on)
There are a couple of patterns amongst all this:

1) The Recruits found with an anon-3 back generally have the coloring (logos, emblems, names) of the Broadleaf class cards (Pitts, Wash, Boston are good examples, Chi not so much). Easier to see if you look at T207 laid out by team. Brooklyn is an outlier, as Schardt and Rucker break the pattern (brown cap emblem), unlike Higgins, Knetzer, Northen and and Tooley.

2) As far as I'm aware, players found with a silver border (as opposed to tan) will not be found with an anon-3 back. This is purely speculative, as I'm not aware of a formal categorization of the borders to date, and some Recruits seem to be found with both, and some are only silver or only tan...

3) There seems to be (at the moment) a separation between Anon-3, blank, and brown-ink back amongst the Recruits. Some categorization has been done on the latter two backs, and to-date, there is no overlap. This is very preliminary, and there isn't an obvious reason whay this might be the case, but it is a valid (current) observation.

4) They (the Anon 3 Recruits specifically) are very rare at grades better than VG. I have only seen one or two. Ron may be able to provide more info here, or provide good counter examples, but they generally have not faired well with time. Broadleaf class Anon-3's are found at grades at least to Ex/Nm, though not nearly as often as their less-common Factory 25 counterparts.
(esoterica off)

I think its just a matter of time before more is known, as other samples come to light, but I suspect Tim's supposition that there would be 50 is still a good working hypothesis.

The list of anon-3 recruits:
Block
Bodie
Carrigan
Cicotte
Collins
Easterly
Engle
Fromme
George
Gowdy
Graham
Hageman
Hall
Hallinan
Hamilton
Henry
Higgins
Hogan
Hooper
Kling
Knetzer
Leach
Leifield
Lewis
Lord (Harry)
McDonald
McIntyre
McKechnie
Mitchell (Mike)
Morgan (Ray)
Northen
Nunamaker
Perdue
Rucker
Schardt
Scott
Smith (Frank)
Speaker
Spratt
Steele
Stovall
Sullivan
Thomas
Tooley
Wagner
Wallace
Wingo
Wood
Zeider

--
Mike

[frohme]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

With 145 known backs, are Napoleon backs thought to be complete at 150?

Napoleon will be complete - likely at 150. Most recent addition to the survey came in 2020, if I recall. Major interesting thing to date (to me at least) is that each of the 4 Recruit cards with variations (Austin, Fischer, Livingston, and Mullin) only have one of the variations confirmed. I think its probably statistically significant enough with the few cards remaining to be confirmed that they could move to 'unlikely'.

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Is there a confirmed list for ANON 3?

Posted above.

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Is it thought to mirror the Napoleon checklist?

No, its a subset.

--
Mike

[Leon]

Concerning T207 backs, that was a lot of blank backs at auction last night.
.

[frohme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Concerning T207 backs, that was a lot of blank backs at auction last night.
.

Yep, something close to 80% (32/41) of the cataloged T207 poses (Recruit-class) known with a blank back were represented.

Cataloged is a really rough term in this context... more like informally jotted down somewhere that was actually found when putting the list together...

--
Mike

[rand1com]

Does anyone have a valid number of PSA graded Louis Lowdermilk cards with the Cycle back? I know the total number graded but am trying to accurately(as much as is possible) determine the pop number of this version.

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by Leon

Concerning T207 backs, that was a lot of blank backs at auction last night.
.

I was fortunate to pick up nine of them. At between $80-120 each I think they're a bargain compared to their T205/206 cousins.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

I was fortunate to pick up nine of them. At between $80-120 each I think they're a bargain compared to their T205/206 cousins.

I agree and I am not sure they are not too much more common, this group notwithstanding. But maybe I am not as in tune with them as I used to be.

If I could find a red cross I might start another back run of the 207s...
.

[frohme]

As obsessed as I've been with T207 over the past 15 years, they do absolutely nothing for me. But maybe I'm an outlier - blanks backs in T205/6 do nothing for me either.

I've written off Red Cross, too, Leon - not because I don't like it ... I just can't stomach that $$ on top of the Broadleaf-class premiums already at play.

--
Mike

Originally Posted by Leon

I agree and I am not sure they are too much more common, this group notwithstanding. But maybe I am not as in tune with them as I used to be.

If I could find a red cross I might start another back run of the 207s...
.

[frohme]

Originally Posted by rand1com

What is considered the toughest card/back version in the set disregarding Red Cross backs?

I'd be hard-pressed to pick one. I think most would say a Lewis-No-emblem is the hardest card, period, with populations in the low double digits. One of those would outweigh most of the known low population 'common' cards, though the latter will be in the 'less than two hands-full' known.

The Broadleaf-class cards are - for the most part - on par difficulty-wise, and backs have little effect upon that. The big-3 (now 4) are over-hyped and aren't any more difficult than many of their peers. They go for $$$$ for historical reasons, IMO.

The Recruits have been covered above, I guess, and are where the devil hides.

--
Mike