So who was better ( Kaline or Clemente) ?

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911- here's your quote from post #44, in direct reference to OTHER
commenters' revelations about Roberto/Al's ratings in various systems:

" I do not subscribe to appeals to authority, something is not true or false
because an authority says so".

That is YOU, directly contradicting what you said was a "lie" in your most
recent post, point 3. In essence, while other commenters were showing that
rating systems revealed both players were ranked incredibly high, your reply
was to dismiss ANY rating system, especially one that revealed your
"overrated" remark to be the jackass comment it was. It looks like you
might need to read the transcript, Einstein...

Conclusion: both players are wonderful, first time HOF inductees. Some
prefer Al, others Roberto- which is just fine. The notion that any "best of
the best" players of all time(!) can be "overrated" is an absurdity that exists
only in the minds of people who never played or who, more likely, have too
much time on their hands. It is quasi- intellectual fluffery, nothing more.
Fluffery appears to be your sweet spot, but other folks will oppose it and
refuse to play by your schizoid rules. Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

This really isn't hard. Even within the category of best of the best players, most people would assign a hierarchy or rating system. E.g. all the top 100 lists out there. Therefore, a player can be overrated despite clearly belonging within the category, if one believes the relative rating is too high. That's all we're talking about here.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

G1911- here's your quote from post #44, in direct reference to OTHER
commenters' revelations about Roberto/Al's ratings in various systems:

" I do not subscribe to appeals to authority, something is not true or false
because an authority says so".

That is YOU, directly contradicting what you said was a "lie" in your most
recent post, point 3. In essence, while other commenters were showing that
rating systems revealed both players were ranked incredibly high, your reply
was to dismiss ANY rating system, especially one that revealed your
"overrated" remark to be the jackass comment it was. It looks like you
might need to read the transcript, Einstein...

Conclusion: both players are wonderful, first time HOF inductees. Some
prefer Al, others Roberto- which is just fine. The notion that any "best of
the best" players of all time(!) can be "overrated" is an absurdity that exists
only in the minds of people who never played or who, more likely, have too
much time on their hands. It is quasi- intellectual fluffery, nothing more.
Fluffery appears to be your sweet spot, but other folks will oppose it and
refuse to play by your schizoid rules. Trent King

Are you not familiar with an appeal to authority? Your claim was I said something "about not acknowledging outside "player ratings" systems. That quote is not me not acknowledging other people have rated players? At all? I spoke about James very favorably, specifically. What I said is that a person's rating does not make it true; that the preceding appeal to authority, that Clemente is better because some have rated him so, is not rational. Which it isn't. A thing is true or false on the facts, not on who ranked them where. Appeals to authority are a fallacy. That doesn't make other peoples rankings are right or wrong. It certainly doesn't mean they don't exist. I explicitly said it was BillJames 2003 Abstract, a thousand page book of player rankings, that got me into the advanced statistics side of baseball. It's in the transcript. In order.

As others have explained to you, that is not circular or contradictory. "Great" and "overrated" are not a contradiction, at all. That is a fact. You really need to learn some basic logic and key terms if you want to do this.

Please learn to use the quote button. Debate on reasonable grounds. As I said in my first post, it's a very close toss up. You need to calm down and stop attacking everyone, including people who have not engaged with your schtick that you have abused and labelled cocaine users, fake and insane, if they don't pick your pick.