Who is the greatest baseball player of all time?

[Lucas00]

I think all around it's Either babe or Willie. But I think Aaron gets far too little consideration. To me he's the best hitter of all time and was a spectacular fielder as well (though not quite mays level of course).

[jiw98]

Babe Ruth, was a very good pitcher, hit for power and avg. Ruth is best ever and not to take anything away from some others that where great players, next best is a distant second.

[Rad_Hazard]

It's a tough question. It's also extremely tough to compare players pre and post integration.

My gut says Ruth, the numbers and impact on the game say so, but Willie was so incredible!

If I were hard-pressed to do a top 3 right now I would say:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ted Williams

[jingram058]

What person can definitively answer that question?

Everyone has an opinion. Who do YOU think is the greatest?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jingram058

What person can definitively answer that question?

I can. Ruth.

[BobC]

Always remember scouts and baseball executives talking about 5-tool players as being the best prospects, and eventually the greatest actual players, of the game. Well, sorry to say, but the truth is that Ruth was never a 5-tool player!!!

Mays, on the other hand, most definitely had all 5-tools, in spades. Also, scouts and others often talked about his amazing arm strength and throwing ability, and many surmised he would have actually been a better pitcher than outfielder. In his time coming up though, teams didn't really consider the idea of using a player as both a pitcher and as a position player on their non-pitching days. So, Mays was pushed into the outfield so he could be in the lineup every day. We'll never know for sure how great of a pitcher Willie could have been, but based on many knowledgeable people's opinions, he would have potentially been a great pitcher as well. Now I'm not out and out saying Mays is the greatest player of all time. It is a futile and somewhat pointless argument and waste of time due to all the different eras, changes in rules, equipment, and context that have occurred since baseball first was played to definitively be able to say someone is absolutely better or worse than someone else. But in terms of Ruth versus Mays, Willie was a true 5-tolol player, while Ruth was not. That is indisputable and fact. How great of a pitcher Mays could have possibly been, we'll never know as that is all speculative because Mays was never given the opportunity to pitch in the majors as Ruth was.

And the question was strictly about who was the greatest player ever in baseball , NOT who was the most influential ever. And anyone who doesn't admit and realize those are two entirely different questions is just being ignorant. And even so, for those who would argue Ruth was the most influential baseball player of all time, I'm not so sure Ruth's supposed influence didn't have a lot more to do with him being lucky and in the right place at the right time. MLB was already trying to change the conversation about the game due to the Black Sox scandal, and as a result they changed the ball from a dead to a live ball. They also saw the size and measurements of MLB stadium outfields shortening and making it easier for players to hit home runs. But Ruth himself didn't make or influence such changes, he really just happened to be the one to take the most advantage of the changes that MLB was actually implementing and supporting. So, arguing that it was actually Ruth who was the most influential may actually be more of a case of the tail wagging the dog than a lot of Ruth fans care to admit.

In the meantime, if you want to talk about a player having a possible even more direct, lasting, and influential effect on the game of baseball, I would nominate Curt Flood as potentially the most influential player of all time. He fought to bring about the demise of the reserve clause in baseball, and the onset of free agency. And he did so with absolutely no help or support from MLB as they were fighting against him. There is no denying the fact that the game of baseball dramatically and forever changed with the advent of free agency. Meanwhile, Ruth's impact and influence had a lot more to do with the rules, equipment, and other changes and such that MLB put in place and supported for baseball overall, and which he was able to take advantage of.

[rhettyeakley]

Bob that was a lot of words to not answer the question. But you call the idea of the thread “a futile and a somewhat pointless argument and a waste of time” so thanks for chiming in.
I will take Babe Ruth’s actual pitching over Willie Mays’ theoretical pitching ability. Mays is great and certainly in the discussion but total body of work tips the scales towards Ruth… even despite the lack of 5-Tools!?!

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by BobC

And even so, for those who would argue Ruth was the most influential baseball player of all time, I'm not so sure Ruth's supposed influence didn't have a lot more to do with him being lucky and in the right place at the right time. MLB was already trying to change the conversation about the game due to the Black Sox scandal, and as a result they changed the ball from a dead to a live ball. They also saw the size and measurements of MLB stadium outfields shortening and making it easier for players to hit home runs. But Ruth himself didn't make or influence such changes, he really just happened to be the one to take the most advantage of the changes that MLB was actually implementing and supporting. So, arguing that it was actually Ruth who was the most influential may actually be more of a case of the tail wagging the dog than a lot of Ruth fans care to admit.

The first year Ruth became a regular outfielder, 1919 (before the Black Sox scandal) he hit more than twice as many home runs as the next highest player (29 to 12.) The next year (before the Black Sox scandal broke) he hit almost three times as many (54 to 19.) The following year, 1921, his third as an outfielder, he hit almost 2.5 times as many home runs as the next guy (59 to 24.)

But your theory is that MLB decided to liven up the ball first, hoping somebody would transform the game to such an extent that a ballclub would need to build a huge new stadium to accommodate the tens of thousands of fans who would come to see someone hit the ball a mile with some regularity... and Ruth just happened to take advantage of the situation.

I think you have the proverbial cart and horse backwards.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I can. Ruth.

I agree, but it's just my opinion. And yours.

And that is all it is. Crunch numbers, data, stats, yada yada yada. That's all these highly subjective questions can generate...opinion.

No human being can divine himself and declare with finality who the best of all-time is. And that isn't opinion, that's hard, cold, stiff, decomposing, putrefying, tag on the big toe fact.

[Lorewalker]

The game has been played over so many decades with different levels of athleticism, conditioning, rules, methods of management to name a few factors that make comparing certain players to one another almost seem unfair.

A large element to sheer offense production is determined not just by the player's talent but the line up he is part of and overall talent (or lack of) of the opposing teams he faced during his career. And when you think of greatest, you have to consider what they did for the game not just how great they were at the plate and at their position.

Ruth is the obvious answer but not sure it is the one that I am able to justify given the era in which he played and the line up he was in. Need to give this more thought.

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I agree, but it's just my opinion. And yours.

And that is all it is. Crunch numbers, data, stats, yada yada yada. That's all these highly subjective questions can generate...opinion.

No human being can divine himself and declare with finality who the best of all-time is. And that isn't opinion, that's hard, cold, stiff, decomposing, putrefying, tag on the big toe fact.

I’m pretty sure nobody is looking for a definitive answer for any of these types of questions. It’s all opinion. That should be common sense. The discussions that result are what makes it fun. Chill out a bit.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

It's a tough question. It's also extremely tough to compare players pre and post integration.

My gut says Ruth, the numbers and impact on the game say so, but Willie was so incredible!

If I were hard-pressed to do a top 3 right now I would say:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ted Williams

I think you would see Ted Williams name more in the Goat discussion if he didn't miss five full seasons to military service. If you extrapolate his season average numbers over those 5 years his totals are astounding.