Albert pujols - let's see them

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 5 weeks? The only way that happens is if pitchers groove some for him. Very odd career IMO. First half, he was arguably a top 10 of all time type player, just massive. Second half, mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base.

I would say he still is a top 10 all time player.

Trout was lucky to play with someone who put up numbers he could only dream about.

[Casey2296]

This post is as good as any to ask, I know bupkiss about modern but would like to own a Pujols card or two. Do you have a suggestion for the best investment card? Also because I'm a collector a suggestion for the most beautiful card.

Thanks in advance.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would say he still is a top 10 all time player.

Trout was lucky to play with someone who put up numbers he could only dream about.

Put Albert's first ten years together with Trout's and you might have the GOAT.

[ALR-bishop]

If Pujols had stayed in St. Louis for his career would there have been a Musial Pujols debate as to the best Cardinal ever

[sbfinley]

My Favorite Albert's:



And some Yadi love too...

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Put Albert's first ten years together with Trout's and you might have the GOAT.

Peter, are you out of mind here? Why don't you recognize we are witness to the end of a career that was one of the best of all time. If you remove the cheaters, Pujols will finish 3rd on the most Home Runs hit in the HISTORY - the HISTORY - of baseball behind only Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth. To even imply his numbers were padded because of Trout is absolutely crazy. His move to the Angels was the biggest mistake he ever made in baseball. He won more World Series rings with the Cardinals than the Angels have ever won as a team! The score would be Pujols 2 - Angels 1. Pujols will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and should be somewhere between the 38th - 40th player inducted as a Cardinal. If, I say if because Trout has a long way to go, Trout is inducted for the Angels he will be number 6.

Pujols went back to the team where he was loved and admired - a city that has won more World Series titles than any other team except for the Yankees. He is putting on a show at the end of his career like no other we have seen in years. Give him his due instead of trying to fabricate things to tarnish what he has accomplished. Enjoy watching the end of a fantastic career - you might actually enjoy it.

[gonefishin]

Since this Rookie card wasn't pictured, I thought I would add it.

[clydepepper]

2011 Topps Tier 1- Albert Pujols Auto.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Peter, are you out of mind here? Why don't you recognize we are witness to the end of a career that was one of the best of all time. If you remove the cheaters, Pujols will finish 3rd on the most Home Runs hit in the HISTORY - the HISTORY - of baseball behind only Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth. To even imply his numbers were padded because of Trout is absolutely crazy. His move to the Angels was the biggest mistake he ever made in baseball. He won more World Series rings with the Cardinals than the Angels have ever won as a team! The score would be Pujols 2 - Angels 1. Pujols will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and should be somewhere between the 38th - 40th player inducted as a Cardinal. If, I say if because Trout has a long way to go, Trout is inducted for the Angels he will be number 6.

Pujols went back to the team where he was loved and admired - a city that has won more World Series titles than any other team except for the Yankees. He is putting on a show at the end of his career like no other we have seen in years. Give him his due instead of trying to fabricate things to tarnish what he has accomplished. Enjoy watching the end of a fantastic career - you might actually enjoy it.

Look up his WAR on the Angels and let's talk.

Here I did it for you.
Pujols, per Baseball-Reference's calculations, has been worth 99.4 WAR for his career. During his 11 seasons with the Cardinals, he amassed 86.6 WAR. That means Pujols was worth just 12.8 wins above replacement during his time in Anaheim. Pujols has been worth -2.0 WAR since the start of the 2017 season.

Yeah, I'm out of my mind here.

[gonefishin]

I've never looked up WAR, probably never will. I don't really need that information, and to be honest I don't really care. I know when it is raining without asking someone what that stuff is falling from the sky.

All I'm asking is for you to give some credit to an individual that has played the game with honor and respect. Although somewhat amusing, I fail to understand why you would even make a comment that Pujols numbers that "count - whatever that means" were padded by playing with Trout:

"mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base."

Let me absorb this a little more, hmmmmmmm, 693 home runs so far in his career - yes - that sounds pretty average to me. Is it raining outside?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

I've never looked up WAR, probably never will. I don't really need that information, and to be honest I don't really care. I know when it is raining without asking someone what that stuff is falling from the sky.

All I'm asking is for you to give some credit to an individual that has played the game with honor and respect. Although somewhat amusing, I fail to understand why you would even make a comment that Pujols numbers that "count - whatever that means" were padded by playing with Trout:

"mostly an average player whose counting stats were padded by having Mike Trout in the lineup and always on base."

Let me absorb this a little more, hmmmmmmm, 693 home runs so far in his career - yes - that sounds pretty average to me. Is it raining outside?

Obviously his first ten years were huge, and I give him lots of credit, he was an elite player despite a long and mediocre tail to his career. That you don't care about advanced metrics is fine, but many people do. As for my observation about Trout, RBI have a lot to do with how many guys are on base when you come up. Pujols' RBI totals would have been a lot lower hitting behind a mortal. Pujols' generally mediocre performance on the Angels is old news by the way, it's been discussed forever.

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Obviously his first ten years were huge, and I give him lots of credit, he was an elite player despite a long and mediocre tail to his career. That you don't care about advanced metrics is fine, but many people do. As for my observation about Trout, RBI have a lot to do with how many guys are on base when you come up. Pujols' RBI totals would have been a lot lower hitting behind a mortal. Pujols' generally mediocre performance on the Angels is old news by the way, it's been discussed forever.

Well Peter, if you would have just put a period after credit and ended the post I would have been very happy! But you didn't. Metrics, an analogy for me as it relates to this post would be:

I'm at the blackjack table enjoying the game. Someone sits down, makes a minimum bet, and then breaks out their "Hoyle" book. Every card that is dealt the person looks up the odds to see if they should hit, stay, etc. Without fail, I get up and leave the table pissed off that the person sat down and ruined my otherwise enjoyable moment. That's metrics my friend.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Peter, are you out of mind here? Why don't you recognize we are witness to the end of a career that was one of the best of all time. If you remove the cheaters, Pujols will finish 3rd on the most Home Runs hit in the HISTORY - the HISTORY - of baseball behind only Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth. To even imply his numbers were padded because of Trout is absolutely crazy. His move to the Angels was the biggest mistake he ever made in baseball. He won more World Series rings with the Cardinals than the Angels have ever won as a team! The score would be Pujols 2 - Angels 1. Pujols will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and should be somewhere between the 38th - 40th player inducted as a Cardinal. If, I say if because Trout has a long way to go, Trout is inducted for the Angels he will be number 6.

Pujols went back to the team where he was loved and admired - a city that has won more World Series titles than any other team except for the Yankees. He is putting on a show at the end of his career like no other we have seen in years. Give him his due instead of trying to fabricate things to tarnish what he has accomplished. Enjoy watching the end of a fantastic career - you might actually enjoy it.

I would suggest you look up Pujols statistics as an Angel. He contributed very little (a 108 OPS+ is pretty bad for a 1B/DH) and his counting stats were absolutely padded by having Trout on base constantly in front of him. This does not detract form his immense value and performance in the first half of his career, it is just reality.

[Kzoo]

Here's a couple of my signed cards. The SP was severely downgraded due to a light 'dent' in the surface near his right foot.

[G1911]

It is not worth much of anything, but this is my favorite Pujols card for some reason. Love the 62 All-Stars and he looks right in a Cardinals jersey. Pujols was a beast, and his reputation as a decent fellow didn't hurt. I hope he gets to 700.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I would suggest you look up Pujols statistics as an Angel. He contributed very little (a 108 OPS+ is pretty bad for a 1B/DH) and his counting stats were absolutely padded by having Trout on base constantly in front of him. This does not detract form his immense value and performance in the first half of his career, it is just reality.

Let's assume (and hope) PEDs are not the explanation. Is there a good one? I mean he was decent for a couple of years but was almost a liability for a long time after that. It's almost inconceivable given that he was an uber elite player in the 2000s, one who seriously could have challenged for the GOAT with a more normal trajectory..

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's assume (and hope) PEDs are not the explanation. Is there a good one? I mean he was decent for a couple of years but was almost a liability for a long time after that. It's almost inconceivable given that he was an uber elite player in the 2000s, one who seriously could have challenged for the GOAT with a more normal trajectory..

His decline really begins in 2013, his age 33 season. He’s been straight trash since 2017 other than his resurgence this year, which was his age 37 season.

Pujols has previously misstated his age in interviews, multiple times (one of many articles on one of multiple instances: https://www.halosheaven.com/2018/11/...-age-conundrum). The rumors of his age have been around since he started.

I suspect it’s not PED’s, it’s just that he’s even older than he claims to be. Add just a couple years to his age, and his decline looks right in line with historical norms.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

His decline really begins in 2013, his age 33 season. He’s been straight trash since 2017 other than his resurgence this year, which was his age 37 season.

Pujols has previously misstated his age in interviews, multiple times (one of many articles on one of multiple instances: https://www.halosheaven.com/2018/11/...-age-conundrum). The rumors of his age have been around since he started.

I suspect it’s not PED’s, it’s just that he’s even older than he claims to be. Add just a couple years to his age, and his decline looks right in line with historical norms.

How in this day and age can there be uncertainty about when someone was born? This isn't Satchel Paige.