1949 Leaf Theory

tedzan · #1 08-24-2022, 11:43 AM

Brian K

You may find some answers to the questions you have regarding the 1949 LEAF set in the 8-page article
I published in the OLD CARBOARD Magazine (Issue 9). Or in the Net54 thread......
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ight=1949+LEAF

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

yanks87 · #2 08-24-2022, 02:57 PM

Any idea where I could track down a copy of that?

Casey2296 · #3 08-24-2022, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks87

Any idea where I could track down a copy of that?

Here you go.
https://www.oldcardboard.com/subscriptions.asp

yanks87 · #4 08-24-2022, 04:50 PM

thank you! I ordered up a copy!

Pat R · #5 11-26-2022, 06:39 PM

Hi Brian, could the possible third printing that you're talking about actually have been an initial printing that was a short print due to the Bowman lawsuit?

I know David has posted a couple of times that Lionel Carter wrote about someone that knew a young collector who had 33 previously unknown cards in the set.

In the January-February 1960 issue of Sport Fan, Carter had another column about 1949 Leaf baseball, announcing the discovery of 33 previously unknown cards

This is a May 4 1949 newspaper report of the court order and in the last paragraph it explicitly states names and pictures of 33 baseball players.

img214.jpg

yanks87 · #6 11-26-2022, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

Hi Brian, could the possible third printing that you're talking about actually have been an initial printing that was a short print due to the Bowman lawsuit?

I know David has posted a couple of times that Lionel Carter wrote about someone that knew a young collector who had 33 previously unknown cards in the set.

In the January-February 1960 issue of Sport Fan, Carter had another column about 1949 Leaf baseball, announcing the discovery of 33 previously unknown cards

This is a May 4 1949 newspaper report of the court order and in the last paragraph it explicitly states names and pictures of 33 baseball players.

Attachment 544385

I do think the lawsuit had something to do with the distribution of the cards, mainly the short prints. Dr. James Beckett as well have others have said that the cards are found predominately through the Great Lakes, which would fall in line with East coast distribution shut down because of the lawsuit. I think that the 2nd printing of the first 49 happened before the short print run. I think the order of the set distribution was:
_ Leaf Pirates
_ Leaf Baseball -First 49 Print/2nd Print (First 49, this is where the PINK color appears)/Short Print 49 Baseball
_ Leaf Football and Boxing

All the sets used skip numbering, and the color composition of the cards became simpler and simpler as time went on (no more green). With the Short Print baseball into boxing and football, the color went to strictly CMYK, no color mixing.

Still working to crack the code, but learning some very interesting things. Thanks for including this.

yanks87 · #7 11-26-2022, 08:24 PM

Another piece of the puzzle is the Newhouser prototype, one of which sold in 2009 for $80k. It seems like a proof or prototype, but I do find it interesting that this is the only spot ORANGE is attempted.

Pat R · #8 11-26-2022, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks87

I do think the lawsuit had something to do with the distribution of the cards, mainly the short prints. Dr. James Beckett as well have others have said that the cards are found predominately through the Great Lakes, which would fall in line with East coast distribution shut down because of the lawsuit. I think that the 2nd printing of the first 49 happened before the short print run. I think the order of the set distribution was:
_ Leaf Pirates
_ Leaf Baseball -First 49 Print/2nd Print (First 49, this is where the PINK color appears)/Short Print 49 Baseball
_ Leaf Football and Boxing

All the sets used skip numbering, and the color composition of the cards became simpler and simpler as time went on (no more green). With the Short Print baseball into boxing and football, the color went to strictly CMYK, no color mixing.

Still working to crack the code, but learning some very interesting things. Thanks for including this.

I just thought it was interesting that the newspaper article from 1949 and Lionel Carters writing from 1960 mention 33 cards and Ted's photo of the uncut sheet has 33 cards with a 1948 copyright date and 16 with a 1949 copyright date. Is it possible that they had a two 33 card sheets set up to print and maybe even printed some and then added 16 of the cards with the 49 copyright date to each sheet.

HistoricNewspapers · #9 11-30-2022, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks87

I do think the lawsuit had something to do with the distribution of the cards, mainly the short prints. Dr. James Beckett as well have others have said that the cards are found predominately through the Great Lakes, which would fall in line with East coast distribution shut down because of the lawsuit. I think that the 2nd printing of the first 49 happened before the short print run. I think the order of the set distribution was:
_ Leaf Pirates
_ Leaf Baseball -First 49 Print/2nd Print (First 49, this is where the PINK color appears)/Short Print 49 Baseball
_ Leaf Football and Boxing

All the sets used skip numbering, and the color composition of the cards became simpler and simpler as time went on (no more green). With the Short Print baseball into boxing and football, the color went to strictly CMYK, no color mixing.

Still working to crack the code, but learning some very interesting things. Thanks for including this.

Doesn't this make the Leaf cards a regional issue like the Bond and Swell sets that predated the leaf cards? No southern or Western distribution. Barely an east coast distribution.

tedzan · #10 11-26-2022, 08:37 PM

Hi Brian K

Hopefully, you have read my 8-page article in the OLD CARDBOARD Magazine regarding the 1949 LEAF. If you have any questions, feel free to email me.... tedzan11@comcast.net

Also, check-out this 1949 LEAF BB thread (May 2016)......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=1949+LEAF

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Most set collectors consider this set to be the toughest to complete of all the major post-war issues. I've posted this thread here in the pre-war section since this set
comprises of BB stars that played in every decade from 1897 to 1948.

There are 98 different subjects in this set (20 of them HOFers). These cards were issued in 2 series of 49 cards each. The first series was available very early in the
Spring of 1949. The 2nd (short-printed) series was very limited in its distribution during the Summer of 1949. These 49 cards were available only in four regions of
the country (Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, and Eastern Massachusetts).

Anyhow, I have quite a sentimental attachment to these cards, since they were my very first colorized BB cards that I collected when I was a 10-year kid.

I'll start this show with some of my favorites in my set. Looking forward to seeing your 1949 Leaf cards.

.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

yanks87 · #11 11-26-2022, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Brian K

Hopefully, you have read my 8-page article in the OLD CARDBOARD Magazine regarding the 1949 LEAF. If you have any questions, feel free to email me.... tedzan11@comcast.net

Also, check-out this 1949 LEAF BB thread (May 2016)......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=1949+LEAF

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted-
I bought the issue and read the article. Your first hand memories of purchasing the cards in 1949 is fantastic. I am working on the company history right now and putting together the theory of where the cards were printed and if that accounts for all the variations and "non-professional" printing errors. I think hands down, the Leaf QC department was not all there, and I would attribute it to the fact that I believe the cards were printed in house. During my research of the company, looking for access to an archive, (including talking to the current CEO of Leaf, who is a great nephew once removed from Sol Leaf, or something like that), I found that Leaf Brands, as it appears on the Copyright on the back of the cards was actually formed in 1947. Sol Leaf consolidated his other candy companies into one, including Overland Candy. If that sounds familiar, they produced a candy wrapper baseball card from 1938-42. I also checked copyrights from 1948 and 1949, and Leaf is not documented as having a Copyright that coincides with the one on the back of the cards. (If there are any lawyers reading this, I would love an explanation on how/why this might be).

The Overland connection provides and interesting connection to the cards. I found a box of WHOPPERS from 1947, the stock looks VERY similar to that of the cards. So if the cards weren't printed in house, whoever was printing the packing for Leaf products, I think used the same commercial lithography presses to make the cards.

That's the quick overview of where I am at, the story is getting more and more interesting, the 2nd printing is a real thing, if you look at your cards and the hats are a different color than the rest you see out there, you have a second printing. Now the trick is to see if there was a third printing, or a second printing of the short prints. I'm far from an answer, but planning to chase down some theories this spring in Chicago. Thanks again for all of your help and opinions.

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