Accepting current card prices

[bigred1]

If I understand correctly, Ebay fees eat a ton, in most cases 12%, if you have the card there you can save that and still make a deal. Prices seemed typical to me, some people need to get a grip on reality and some were reasonable.

[Exhibitman]

Understand the psychology of a card show, though. People expect to bargain at a show. They expect to bundle items and get a volume discount. If you put your cards up at your rock bottom prices, even if they are objectively fair, customers will still expect to haggle and get a discount, and if you refuse, there is a significant subclass who will actually get mad at you even if the prices are fair or even discounted to what is available at auction or on eBay.

As for eBay, buyers at shows also conveniently forget that dealers have to pay table fees, business license fees and miscellaneous travel expenses, and collect and remit sales tax. If I have an item on eBay in my store at $400, buyers expect I will shave off the entire eBay fee and take $360 for it. They forget my costs. I sell something at $400 in my eBay store sells, eBay collects and remits the sales tax on top of the sale price. if I sell it at a show I have to remit sales tax from that $400. I am going to set up at a show in Burbank August 26-28. Burbank sales tax is 10.25%. That $400 sale nets me about $360 because of the sales tax. it is roughly equivalent to my eBay fees. Then there are the costs. It cost me $500 to get the table and will cost me another $50 or so for parking over the weekend, and I am a local who can just go home after the show each day and brown-bag lunch and snacks. I have to sell a bunch of stuff just to break even.

All of these are reasons why you more or less have to ticket items above what you want to get for them at any show. Now, that said, there is also the abyss. When I see a $200 card ticketed at $500 at a dealer table, I just walk away because it is pretty clear that there is no reasonable deal to be made.

[ClementeFanOh]

It's fascinating to sit back and consider the word choices by people who
set up at shows (Adam is an example, Exhibitman) and people who go to
buy or trade (me). For example, I don't go to shows to "bargain"- I go to
find accurately priced cards. If I do my homework on card "x" and know it's
last 3 auctions have hammered at $500, and a seller has it at $650, I'm
going to (gently at first) gauge his subject matter knowledge and
willingness (or lack) to sell at the card's ongoing value. Red flag comments
such as "I've got too much in card x to sell it for $500" or "I think it has
potential to reach my figure of $650" are an immediate non starter. The
seller's bad buys and crystal ball notions are irrelevant. I may approach the
seller later if the show is ending soon, but I'm not going to pay the $650. I
don't consider this to be "bargaining", I call it proper business.

I'll close with a couple real life, recent examples. In July, I was at a decent
local show- maybe 190 tables, nice mix of vintage and new, many sports.
Two guys were selling Topps Frank Robinson rookies with the same grade
and by same grading company. One was selling for one hundred dollars less
than the other. I took a photo of the lesser price card and showed it to the
higher seller, and asked if he'd reconsider his price. He said no, so I walked
away (shaking my head in my own mind) and bought from the cheaper
seller. The high seller blatantly ignored the Iron Rule (my term) that most
pieces of cardboard don't have a fixed price, and that he isn't "entitled" to
a certain profit margin due to factors beyond the knowledge or care of the
buyer. That's not "bargaining" on my end, it's direct and timely competition
that he blithely chose to ignore...Second example, same show. A seller had
a 72 Topps Fisk rookie in a new SGC 5.5 holder. He wanted $30 (yes, $30)-
I gave him $30 and took it. No negotiation, "bargaining", etc. Here's $30,
thank you very much. I know there are buyers out there who have no
concept of card market realities, but for those who do, the mere act of
trying to get a seller to fair market value doesn't strike me as
unreasonable. Given that many sellers at shows are themselves buyers,
it shouldn't strike them as unreasonable either.

I'm sure some sellers will unleash the hounds on me. Can you give me a 2
minute head start so I have a chance to live, please? Trent King

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

It's fascinating to sit back and consider the word choices by people who
set up at shows (Adam is an example, Exhibitman) and people who go to
buy or trade (me). For example, I don't go to shows to "bargain"- I go to
find accurately priced cards. If I do my homework on card "x" and know it's
last 3 auctions have hammered at $500, and a seller has it at $650, I'm
going to (gently at first) gauge his subject matter knowledge and
willingness (or lack) to sell at the card's ongoing value. Red flag comments
such as "I've got too much in card x to sell it for $500" or "I think it has
potential to reach my figure of $650" are an immediate non starter. The
seller's bad buys and crystal ball notions are irrelevant. I may approach the
seller later if the show is ending soon, but I'm not going to pay the $650. I
don't consider this to be "bargaining", I call it proper business.

I'll close with a couple real life, recent examples. In July, I was at a decent
local show- maybe 190 tables, nice mix of vintage and new, many sports.
Two guys were selling Topps Frank Robinson rookies with the same grade
and by same grading company. One was selling for one hundred dollars less
than the other. I took a photo of the lesser price card and showed it to the
higher seller, and asked if he'd reconsider his price. He said no, so I walked
away (shaking my head in my own mind) and bought from the cheaper
seller. The high seller blatantly ignored the Iron Rule (my term) that most
pieces of cardboard don't have a fixed price, and that he isn't "entitled" to
a certain profit margin due to factors beyond the knowledge or care of the
buyer. That's not "bargaining" on my end, it's direct and timely competition
that he blithely chose to ignore...Second example, same show. A seller had
a 72 Topps Fisk rookie in a new SGC 5.5 holder. He wanted $30 (yes, $30)-
I gave him $30 and took it. No negotiation, "bargaining", etc. Here's $30,
thank you very much. I know there are buyers out there who have no
concept of card market realities, but for those who do, the mere act of
trying to get a seller to fair market value doesn't strike me as
unreasonable. Given that many sellers at shows are themselves buyers,
it shouldn't strike them as unreasonable either.

I'm sure some sellers will unleash the hounds on me. Can you give me a 2
minute head start so I have a chance to live, please? Trent King

Hate to let you down, but honestly I find this quite reasonable.

I go to shows, estate sales, and make offers all the time. I will offer what I consider to be fair value with no argument, insult, or debate. If it’s a no, then it’s just fine with me. I thank them for the consideration and move on with no hard feelings. If the sticker price is fair, I don’t look to scrape more off the top. Just seems to make for a little bit less stress ya know?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

...I gave him $30 and took it. No negotiation, "bargaining", etc. Here's $30,
thank you very much...

Originally Posted by JustinD

...If the sticker price is fair, I don’t look to scrape more off the top. Just seems to make for a little bit less stress ya know?

+1

Sometimes, the best move is to just make the purchase. If it's something I want, and it's priced correctly, why screw around? I might save a few bucks here and there; however, think about the amount of time I'd waste dicking dickering with people over a few percent.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

It's fascinating to sit back and consider the word choices by people who
set up at shows (Adam is an example, Exhibitman) and people who go to
buy or trade (me). For example, I don't go to shows to "bargain"- I go to
find accurately priced cards. If I do my homework on card "x" and know it's
last 3 auctions have hammered at $500, and a seller has it at $650, I'm
going to (gently at first) gauge his subject matter knowledge and
willingness (or lack) to sell at the card's ongoing value. Red flag comments
such as "I've got too much in card x to sell it for $500" or "I think it has
potential to reach my figure of $650" are an immediate non starter. The
seller's bad buys and crystal ball notions are irrelevant. I may approach the
seller later if the show is ending soon, but I'm not going to pay the $650. I
don't consider this to be "bargaining", I call it proper business.

I'll close with a couple real life, recent examples. In July, I was at a decent
local show- maybe 190 tables, nice mix of vintage and new, many sports.
Two guys were selling Topps Frank Robinson rookies with the same grade
and by same grading company. One was selling for one hundred dollars less
than the other. I took a photo of the lesser price card and showed it to the
higher seller, and asked if he'd reconsider his price. He said no, so I walked
away (shaking my head in my own mind) and bought from the cheaper
seller. The high seller blatantly ignored the Iron Rule (my term) that most
pieces of cardboard don't have a fixed price, and that he isn't "entitled" to
a certain profit margin due to factors beyond the knowledge or care of the
buyer. That's not "bargaining" on my end, it's direct and timely competition
that he blithely chose to ignore...Second example, same show. A seller had
a 72 Topps Fisk rookie in a new SGC 5.5 holder. He wanted $30 (yes, $30)-
I gave him $30 and took it. No negotiation, "bargaining", etc. Here's $30,
thank you very much. I know there are buyers out there who have no
concept of card market realities, but for those who do, the mere act of
trying to get a seller to fair market value doesn't strike me as
unreasonable. Given that many sellers at shows are themselves buyers,
it shouldn't strike them as unreasonable either.

I'm sure some sellers will unleash the hounds on me. Can you give me a 2
minute head start so I have a chance to live, please? Trent King

We're not really at odds here; not everyone plays it this way. You seem to be a reasonable person. I am too, but when I am at a show I always (politely) ask for a discount even if I know the item is underpriced. If I don't get it, I simply buy the item or move along. But there are collectors out there who go from zero to full-bitch mode instantly, just no conflict coping skills at all. It isn't everyone or even most people, but it is a large enough subset to merit consideration when pricing stuff. It is the same in any client-oriented business. I actually had a client once tell me that she will never finalize a transaction unless the other side tells her to f*** off and starts to leave the table, because she then knows she got the best deal. Ironically, of course, the worst ones at the shows are the ones buying the least costly items. Discount on a dollar box single card? Are you kidding?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

...Ironically, of course, the worst ones at the shows are the ones buying the least costly items. Discount on a dollar box single card? Are you kidding?

This is unfortunately true. I have set up dealer tables at many a card show. Some people seem to most feverishly collect stories of how they "beat someone up on the price" of items.

The cards seem secondary compared to the psychological "win" they've negotiated.

[ClementeFanOh]

Adam- yes, you are in the right regarding people who are chintzy enough to
protest over dollar boxes. That simply shouldn't happen, and those people
aren't bargaining- they are just morons. I was referring to collectors who
actually know their stuff and, for lack of a better term, refuse to be taken out
to the woodshed on prices. Your example is a horror story, plain and simple.
If I was at your table, I would NEVER presume to behave that way. Trent King

[Chicosbailbonds]

Love reading the war stories of buying and selling. I will say it’s a great time to snipe on eBay now, it doesn’t pertain to vintage. Too many know when to end their auctions on there when dealing with vintage.