Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by atawolfe

I recently bought this pennant at an auction, and I am looking for any help about it's authenticity. I am a card guy and have never done anything with pennants, so any help is appreciated!

There was an auction awhile back where a Boston bar sold off a bunch of allegedly vintage pennants. Something like McGreevy’s? Anyway I thought I saw something like this pennant in the auction, which did contain many other pennants which clearly weren’t authentic. Not to say this one isn’t but hoping someone else knows more about what I am talking about …

[thetahat]

Yep now I see it on Liveauctioneers. I have serious doubts that this is circa 1903, but it could be an old homemade pennant. It appears that the lettering is glued on and not sewn. That’s a red flag. Also a Boston Braves pennant from the same bar was auctioned, same type of canvas-like material, and it has the exact logo used on a late 40s pennants made by Keezer.

That being said it appears that you have a nice item that hung for a long time in what seems to be a legendary bar. So with documentation it still presumably has value. I’d still be interested in what others think but I feel confident saying someone made this many years ago specifically as an ornament for the bar.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yep now I see it on Liveauctioneers. I have serious doubts that this is circa 1903, but it could be an old homemade pennant. It appears that the lettering is glued on and not sewn. That’s a red flag. Also a Boston Braves pennant from the same bar was auctioned, same type of canvas-like material, and it has the exact logo used on a late 40s pennants made by Keezer.

That being said it appears that you have a nice item that hung for a long time in what seems to be a legendary bar. So with documentation it still presumably has value. I’d still be interested in what others think but I feel confident saying someone made this many years ago specifically as an ornament for the bar.

Agree

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yep now I see it on Liveauctioneers. I have serious doubts that this is circa 1903, but it could be an old homemade pennant. It appears that the lettering is glued on and not sewn. That’s a red flag. Also a Boston Braves pennant from the same bar was auctioned, same type of canvas-like material, and it has the exact logo used on a late 40s pennants made by Keezer.

That being said it appears that you have a nice item that hung for a long time in what seems to be a legendary bar. So with documentation it still presumably has value. I’d still be interested in what others think but I feel confident saying someone made this many years ago specifically as an ornament for the bar.

Now I remember… yeah, the McGreevey stuff. But do we even know for sure it “hung for a long time”?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Now I remember… yeah, the McGreevey stuff. But do we even know for sure it “hung for a long time”?

No, just a guess. I will say, the staining looks sort of deliberate, odd that it is mostly along both long edges.

The description of the item does not elude to it being “original” i.e. circa 1903. Just that it hung for a long time. I gotta believe, if they thought themselves that they had a 119 year old pennant of the first ALWS team, they would know to put it in a separate auction. Something like this, if it was original? Probably looking at a hundred grand.

[thetahat]

Speaking of which, what is the most money known to be spent on a pennant? If my memory serves me correct, a 1919 White Sox “grommet style” pennant sold in auction for $34K. Any others in contention?

[aelefson]

I believe the McGreevy items were mostly made in the last 20-25 years. That bar opened around the early 2000s I think. I would be very cautious to value any of their items beyond what modern reproductions and fantasy items go for.

Alan

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by aelefson

I believe the McGreevy items were mostly made in the last 20-25 years. That bar opened around the early 2000s I think. I would be very cautious to value any of their items beyond what modern reproductions and fantasy items go for.

Alan

Ah did not know that. I assumed this was some sort of legendary tavern.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of which, what is the most money known to be spent on a pennant? If my memory serves me correct, a 1919 White Sox “grommet style” pennant sold in auction for $34K. Any others in contention?

That one (from the Sotheby's Halper Auction) did hold the record until this one eclipsed it...

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...rsized-pennant

[atawolfe]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Now I remember… yeah, the McGreevey stuff. But do we even know for sure it “hung for a long time”?

This item is indeed from McGreeveys, which closed in early 2020 due to Covid. The bar was opened in 2008, and was patterned after the '3rd Base Saloon', which opened around the turn of the century, and is considered by many to be the first 'sports' bar. It was started my a man named Michael (Nuf Ced) McGreevy, who was a huge Boston baseball fan. He had an extreme amount of pictures and memorabilia in his bar, especially for the time period. When prohibition hit, it put him out of business. Most of the pictures and documents were donated to the Boston Public Library, where they still reside today.

When McGreevys opened in 2008, it was patterned after the original 3rd Base Saloon, so the owners went to the library and asked for copies of some of the old pictures to hang in the bar. They also sought out some original items to be displayed in the bar. I won a few of those as well, and they are indeed original.

During the auction a few months ago, the auctioneer would state whether the item was authentic, or a reprint. For this particular pennant, he stated that they did not know if was authentic or not.

I bought it with the assumption that it was not real. However, after putting my hands on it for the first time, I am wondering if it may be authentic.

Everyone's help is much appreciated. I guess my next question would be, who could I take it to that could inspect the fabric/lettering/etc and tell what time period it is from?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by atawolfe

This item is indeed from McGreeveys, which closed in early 2020 due to Covid. The bar was opened in 2008, and was patterned after the '3rd Base Saloon', which opened around the turn of the century, and is considered by many to be the first 'sports' bar. It was started my a man named Michael (Nuf Ced) McGreevy, who was a huge Boston baseball fan. He had an extreme amount of pictures and memorabilia in his bar, especially for the time period. When prohibition hit, it put him out of business. Most of the pictures and documents were donated to the Boston Public Library, where they still reside today.

When McGreevys opened in 2008, it was patterned after the original 3rd Base Saloon, so the owners went to the library and asked for copies of some of the old pictures to hang in the bar. They also sought out some original items to be displayed in the bar. I won a few of those as well, and they are indeed original.

During the auction a few months ago, the auctioneer would state whether the item was authentic, or a reprint. For this particular pennant, he stated that they did not know if was authentic or not.

I bought it with the assumption that it was not real. However, after putting my hands on it for the first time, I am wondering if it may be authentic.

Everyone's help is much appreciated. I guess my next question would be, who could I take it to that could inspect the fabric/lettering/etc and tell what time period it is from?

Honestly, I’m not sure anyone will be able to even remotely pin that down for you. The material appears to be unlike anything used in mass produced pennants, of any age, if this is homemade there’s almost no way of telling.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Honestly, I’m not sure anyone will be able to even remotely pin that down for you. The material appears to be unlike anything used in mass produced pennants, of any age, if this is homemade there’s almost no way of telling.

And even if you knew the age of the canvas, you wouldn’t necessarily know the age of the pennant.

[MK]

Managed to acquire this scarce Cubs pennant from the 1940s. Seems to use the same batter as on the Playball pennant, and the same font as the 1945 World Series pennant. Same manufacturer perhaps?