Mike Trout's injury is starting to seem serious

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'll tell Mike to check out this thread for our expert's advice and opinions before making any decisions.

Originally Posted by BobC

So Frank, given your background and experience, what do you think?

Hey Bob, you deserve a response. I would be wary of taking advice from a retired surgeon whose specialty was oncologic surgery for a patient he has never seen and whose records and images he has not reviewed or nor has access to.

There may be forum members better qualified than I, but there are quite a few who are not. Not casting stones, just sayin'.

As an aside I did train with an orthopedic surgeon, Lewis Yocum, who became the Angels team physician for a number of years and was instrumental in developing Tommy John surgery with Dr. Jobe, who gets more credit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/s...ies-at-65.html.

[nat]

"the biggest to punish the 19th century pitchers because without it, it turns out a pitcher who throws 500 innings and leads the league in ERA produces more value to their team than a pitcher that grows 220 innings and leads the league in ERA, which is not what people wanted to see"


The highest WAR seasons are almost all 19th century pitchers. Here's the list (bWAR, not Fangraph's stat):

1883 Tim Keefe
1884 Old Hoss Radbourn
1884 Pud Galvin
1876 Jim Devlin
1884 Guy Hecker
1913 Walter Johnson
1884 Charlie Buffington
1889 John Clarkson
1888 Silver King
1887 John Clarkson

[G1911]

Originally Posted by nat

"the biggest to punish the 19th century pitchers because without it, it turns out a pitcher who throws 500 innings and leads the league in ERA produces more value to their team than a pitcher that grows 220 innings and leads the league in ERA, which is not what people wanted to see"


The highest WAR seasons are almost all 19th century pitchers. Here's the list (bWAR, not Fangraph's stat):

1883 Tim Keefe
1884 Old Hoss Radbourn
1884 Pud Galvin
1876 Jim Devlin
1884 Guy Hecker
1913 Walter Johnson
1884 Charlie Buffington
1889 John Clarkson
1888 Silver King
1887 John Clarkson

Yes, even after punishment they end up at the top. Are you alleging the equation for WAR does not have a component subtracting for pitchers in the 19th century? This is not really an area of dispute…

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Hey Bob, you deserve a response. I would be wary of taking advice from a retired surgeon whose specialty was oncologic surgery for a patient he has never seen and whose records and images he has not reviewed or nor has access to.

There may be forum members better qualified than I, but there are quite a few who are not. Not casting stones, just sayin'.

As an aside I did train with an orthopedic surgeon, Lewis Yocum, who became the Angels team physician for a number of years and was instrumental in developing Tommy John surgery with Dr. Jobe, who gets more credit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/s...ies-at-65.html.

Come on man, lack of knowledge never stopped anyone here before from pontificating on a subject. See numerous discussions of legal issues for example.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Come on man, lack of knowledge never stopped anyone here before from pontificating on a subject. See numerous discussions of legal issues for example.

Licenses to Post Authoritatively on Net54

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How to cross the Rio Grande - ROWvWADE

but Freedom of Speech -

Forget about it

Supplement the list if I haven't offended you.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Hey Bob, you deserve a response. I would be wary of taking advice from a retired surgeon whose specialty was oncologic surgery for a patient he has never seen and whose records and images he has not reviewed or nor has access to.

There may be forum members better qualified than I, but there are quite a few who are not. Not casting stones, just sayin'.

As an aside I did train with an orthopedic surgeon, Lewis Yocum, who became the Angels team physician for a number of years and was instrumental in developing Tommy John surgery with Dr. Jobe, who gets more credit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/s...ies-at-65.html.

Dr. Frank,

Thank you to you and any other docs out there and on the forum.

In August of 2015 I dealt with a stage 4 lymphoma, Diffuse Large B Cell.

I should have died at least 3 or 4 times during those remaining months in 2015, yet here I am.

I had a great kid at the time take care of me at KU Med. He's early 30's now.

Kept me alive and he is the ONLY Oncology doc I see for follow up, even though he is in Hays KS now, instead of Kansas City. I will drive to see him. I used to fly from OC in CA, but recently moved back to Olathe.

Anyways, Thank you Frank for the help and hope you gave to patients who benefited from your care and expertise.

Lou

[BobC]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Hey Bob, you deserve a response. I would be wary of taking advice from a retired surgeon whose specialty was oncologic surgery for a patient he has never seen and whose records and images he has not reviewed or nor has access to.

There may be forum members better qualified than I, but there are quite a few who are not. Not casting stones, just sayin'.

As an aside I did train with an orthopedic surgeon, Lewis Yocum, who became the Angels team physician for a number of years and was instrumental in developing Tommy John surgery with Dr. Jobe, who gets more credit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/s...ies-at-65.html.

LOL

I hear you Frank. But first off, nobody was saying they were any kind of expert, nor trying to tell Mike Trout what to do either, which is what you kind of alluded to when you said you'd pass this thread along to him. I know I would never tell someone like him what to do, just speculating on how what he does decide may be perceived by fans and how it could be viewed in regard to and ultimately affect his legacy as a player and his HOF status.

My original question to you was solely in regard to that question, the one I asked about his possibly continuing to play if his level of play is considerably diminished going forward. And I was asking you to respond in regard to your background and experience as a baseball fan and collector, which I would naturally believe most everyone posting on this forum is to some extent. I was not implying nor asking for any kind of medical opinion. If that is what you were thinking, you just went down the wrong rabbit hole.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

I hear you Frank. But first off, nobody was saying they were any kind of expert, nor trying to tell Mike Trout what to do either, which is what you kind of alluded to when you said you'd pass this thread along to him. I know I would never tell someone like him what to do, just speculating on how what he does decide may be perceived by fans and how it could be viewed in regard to and ultimately affect his legacy as a player and his HOF status.

My original question to you was solely in regard to that question, the one I asked about his possibly continuing to play if his level of play is considerably diminished going forward. And I was asking you to respond in regard to your background and experience as a baseball fan and collector, which I would naturally believe most everyone posting on this forum is to some extent. I was not implying nor asking for any kind of medical opinion. If that is what you were thinking, you just went down the wrong rabbit hole.

Anyone reading your question to Frank would have assumed you were asking about his "background and experience" as a doctor, not a fan and collector. As you are now spinning it, it makes no sense. Just my opinion. Carry on.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Anyone reading your question to Frank would have assumed you were asking about his "background and experience" as a doctor, not a fan and collector. As you are now spinning it, it makes no sense. Just my opinion. Carry on.

Hmmmmmmmmmm???

I only know what I thought and meant, and sure as hell wasn't spinning anything. I've often been accused on here of writing too much, which I do so that what I'm saying is complete and as clear as possible. If I had wanted a medical opinion from someone, I would have stated I wanted a medical opinion. Quite honestly, I had forgotten about someone even being a doctor when I responded. But thank you for going ahead and making an assumption on your, and apparently everyone else's behalf, as to what I was thinking and meant!!!

I gave that one post the benefit of the doubt and figured it was made as a joke about letting Trout know what all the "experts" on here were telling him to do, because if you go back and read the actual posts, no one was telling Trout to do anything. And rather than commenting on it and pointing out the potential sarcasm and error in that one response, I just simply asked the person posting to respond to the actual serious question I had originally asked and was hoping to hear his, and other people's opinions and responses on. In other words, just looking to get the thread back on track. But guess what, because of other posters making more jokes and comments and continuing to ignore the question and instead making assumptions as to what they believe others are saying/thinking, no one has yet to really respond to the original, serious question about how Trout's ability and playing level going forward could affect how his legacy as a player may end up being perceived.

So thank you to those that have once again succeeded in hijacking and turning a thread from its original topic, talking about Trout and how his current injury situation could affect him now and going forward. If I had even remotely meant what you insinuated, I would have owned up and admitted to it. If I am wrong about something, I'm the first to admit it and apologize for it. I'm also open-minded enough to actually listen to things that others say, and can have my mind and thinking changed when presented with logical, sensical facts and civil arguments.

And in an attempt to try once more to get this thread back on point, why not actually post a response to the question about how Trout's future ability to play ball could affect his legacy if he were to continue playing at a much diminished level, or if he decides to retire early?

Carry on yourself!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, Pujols has been mediocre since 2011 and it hasn't seemed to hurt his legacy.

[G1911]

Trout has played in 12 MLB seasons. 10 are needed for the Hall.

I said he played "8 real seasons", because has number of incomplete seasons.

In 2011 he had 135 plate appearances and hit .220 as a debut.

2020 was a short season and he played 53 games.

In 2021 he played in only 36 games.

In 2022 he has played in 79 games, and appears to be done for the year.

12-4 equals 8 full seasons.

If people could simply read what is actually written, this wouldn't need to be broken down.

[frankbmd]

I'm not ashamed of my rabbit hole Bob. It never crossed my mind that you were asking for anything other than a medical opinion. Given the content of your voluminous "taxing" posts, I am quite surprised that you would have expected anything else.

I have purchased one Trout baseball card which I gave to a grandson. I'm am generally disinterested in threads concerning who should or shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. I could care less. Trout's current situation will be resolved one way or the other regardless of the consensus opinion of Net54. Five years from now we will all know more about the impact of his condition on his career and this thread will be long forgotten.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

Trout has played in 12 MLB seasons. 10 are needed for the Hall.

I said he played "8 real seasons", because has number of incomplete seasons.

In 2011 he had 135 plate appearances and hit .220 as a debut.

2020 was a short season and he played 53 games.

In 2021 he played in only 36 games.

In 2022 he has played in 79 games, and appears to be done for the year.

12-4 equals 8 full seasons.

If people could simply read what is actually written, this wouldn't need to be broken down.

I agree with you here, and was a reason i used 8 in the hypothetical and when i was 'corrected' i didnt want to get in the back and forth

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well, Pujols has been mediocre since 2011 and it hasn't seemed to hurt his legacy.

Because counting stats save the day for the ones that pound in the years to a ripe playing age..