Are graded cards the future of vintage?

[homerunhitter]

Are graded cards the future of vintage? I ask this question because it seems like eBay and card shows are filled with them! Seems like Everyone is buying them!
I personally like raw cards. I like the feel and smell of them! But I must say graded vintage cards are starting to grow on me! If nothing else I feel for future resale value when we go to sell our collections (we all will have to some day) you can’t beat graded cards in regards to resale value (versus resale value of raw cards) what say you?

[G1911]

If it’s about money, graded is still the big seller and the name of the game. Human nature being what it is, I doubt this changes, though what slab you need to maximize your dollar may well change.

If it’s about collecting, enjoy them however you like them.

[homerunhitter]

Agree with you! I starting to shift my thinking that graded cards are here to stay. Too many younger collectors only want graded cards these days. One issue I see mostly on here is that not too many people think about that one day they (or their family) are going to have to deal with/sell their collection one day. Collecting what you want TODAY is great for us but I think for our families/friends ,graded will reap the greatest reward for whoever is selling our collections in 20, 30, 40,50 years! An example is: if you have a Nolan Ryan topps rookie card that is raw and the save exact card that is graded (same conditions) which one do you think will have better resale value? What I enjoy collecting today? (Which are raw cards) or the graded version? Food for thought.

[ewomack]

I see graded cards not so much as the future but as the already existing present. As much as I enjoy raw cards, I don't think I would pay a lot of money for one at this point. The most recent cards I've purchased have all been PSA graded. As already mentioned, the resale value makes it a no-brainer, for better or worse.

[homerunhitter]

Very good points! I think alot of us old farts (myself included) that didn’t dump our raw cards before the graded card craze will be left holding the bag! Probably why not too many people are responding to this thread because a ton of people are heavily invested deep in raw cards and now it’s obvious graded cards are king. I’m thinking the smart move here is too quietly sell off raw cards (get what you can get for them) and repurchase/rebuild with graded vintage cards!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Very good points! I think alot of us old farts (myself included) that didn’t dump our raw cards before the graded card craze will be left holding the bag! Probably why not too many people are responding to this thread because a ton of people are heavily invested deep in raw cards and now it’s obvious graded cards are king. I’m thinking the smart move here is too quietly sell off raw cards (get what you can get for them) and repurchase/rebuild with graded vintage cards!

Why not get your vintage cards graded then?

[homerunhitter]

Isn’t PSA like $100 a card to get graded? I’ve never sent in a card to get graded before. Right now there are so many great deals on eBay that some cards I think are cheaper to buy already graded on eBay versus sending them in.

[Fwoodford_34]

Personally for the vintage I collect I feel that grading is a way of preserving the card and safe keeping. I try and grade all of my older cards so they will last for another 70+ years.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Isn’t PSA like $100 a card to get graded? I’ve never sent in a card to get graded before. Right now there are so many great deals on eBay that some cards I think are cheaper to buy already graded on eBay versus sending them in.

There are other TPGs you can use. Plus, my understanding is the grading fees are dropping as the pandemic backlog is being caught up.

And if the grading fees are so high, don't you think those costs are kind of being added into the prices of graded cards being sold already? So if that is the case, and you find graded cards that look like real deals on Ebay, isn't it possible those graded cards are actually not much in demand, so their prices are going to be low, graded or not.

And the inflation we're experiencing could be what is driving down card prices, graded or raw, as well. So going to sell your raw cards now may get you even lower prices than expected. Maybe just wait to see how low the grading fees drop before giving up on getting your raw cards graded.

And for the record, PSA's website shows a special of only $18 to grade cards valued up to $199, and $30 to grade cards valued up to $499. Their regular economy service is $50 a card, for cards valued up to $999. And they do have a current regular service for cards at $100, but that is for cards valued at $1,000 to $1,499. So unless you're talking about cards valued at $1,000 or more, the grading fees are nowhere near $100 a card anymore.

[Lucas00]

I actually find it far easier to sell anything except major stars raw. Primarily talking about Topps sets of the 50s/60s. Say a '61 maris PSA 4 goes for $100. If I get a nice Ex raw copy I can sell it for $90 all day and sometimes even more than a similar card that is graded.
So many people are building sets and so many cards are being graded I think it's annoying for set builders trying to find cards that fit their sets that should be in the $10-20 range just sitting on eBay in a psa 3 listed for $30 not moving. I know it is very annoying for me sometimes. Look at Greg Morris and this becomes very apparent how many people are looking for nice raw cards for their sets.
Not to mention the time it takes to sell. When I post a graded card it usually will take minimum, a day to sell. A nice raw copy equivalent can sell in minutes priced only 5%-10% less.
If I was a dealer I would absolutely be dealing in raw cards. Sure you can get 10% more graded, but turning over cards almost as fast as you get them certainly makes up for it to me.
Just my thoughts and opinion.

[Kutcher55]

I like graded cards and raw cards. I collect both. Most graded cards should not actually have been graded in the first place. And that trend has only gotten worse. Although I guess the higher prices to grade cards might keep some of the rifraf out. It’s hard not to chuckle when I see a freshly graded 73 topps star in a 3 or a 4. And don’t even get me started on modern.

[homerunhitter]

After reading the comments above I wonder since so many vintage cards are now being graded, if raw cards one day will be more scarce and in turn more valuable than graded cards? Good discussion guys. Lots of great points being made!

[G1911]

Raw will never be worth more. If it was, everybody would start cracking like slabs I do and it wouldn't last more than a week.

Too many little ego's need the validation and bragging rights that graded brings.

More seriously, even if one only cares about $$, I don't see it as worthwhile to get ones cards graded until it's time to sell. If you're planning to divest in 10/20/30/40/50 years, it's not worth it. We don't know what slab you'll need then, and there's already a price gap depending on when the card was graded and what generation slab it is. In 20 years the hobby may well be using some new grader that uses a computer algorithm, and will consider PSA 2022 slabs to be junk from a horribly corrupt and outdated process. Save the cash unless one plans to sell soon.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

Raw will never be worth more. If it was, everybody would start cracking like slabs I do and it wouldn't last more than a week.

Too many little ego's need the validation and bragging rights that graded brings.

More seriously, even if one only cares about $$, I don't see it as worthwhile to get ones cards graded until it's time to sell. If you're planning to divest in 10/20/30/40/50 years, it's not worth it. We don't know what slab you'll need then, and there's already a price gap depending on when the card was graded and what generation slab it is. In 20 years the hobby may well be using some new grader that uses a computer algorithm, and will consider PSA 2022 slabs to be junk from a horribly corrupt and outdated process. Save the cash unless one plans to sell soon.

Yeah, I don't think it makes economic sense to get something slabbed until you want to sell it. Too many people care too much about the look of the flips. In 10 years, today's flips may not be in style.

And I don't buy that it is necessary to slab something in order to preserve it. Acid-free sleeves and holders seem to do just fine.

[homerunhitter]

If you check out card shows and social media like Instagram, Facebook and you tube, graded cards are thriving and it seems like they are pushing that graded cards are cool. At card shows you see nothing but slabs in the cases and people walking around with handful of slabs and backpacks full of slabs.

When it comes to protection of cards. Top loaders have been used for decades with no problems at all. I must say graded card slabs do give the card a more solid protection. But slabs do take up way more storage space.

Great point on older slabs. Especially with rumors of AI and robots doing grading in a few years. Psa slabs might be outdated eventually. Look st how the slabs have changed in the past few years. Psa added hologram stickers now I’m seeing done with QR codes on them. And your right because if you look at some older psa slabs from like 10 years ago. They look funky and not as cool as the newer psa slabs.

I wish there was a happy medium and not a do I collect raw or do I collect graded debate that I constantly keep asking myself!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

After reading the comments above I wonder since so many vintage cards are now being graded, if raw cards one day will be more scarce and in turn more valuable than graded cards? Good discussion guys. Lots of great points being made!

You do know that anyone can simply break a card out of its' graded holder, right? So why would anyone pay more for a raw card when they could then buy a cheaper graded card, and just remove it from the holder?

[homerunhitter]

We here on this site are smart, educated and the very best in the hobby. But there are a lot of people in this hobby that well let’s just say….their cornbread ain’t done in the middle!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

We here on this site are smart, educated and the very best in the hobby. But there are a lot of people in this hobby that well let’s just say….their cornbread ain’t done in the middle!

LOL

You have a point!

[homerunhitter]

Graded vs raw the struggle is real!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Are graded cards the future of vintage?

I don't predict the future. But graded cards are very much the present, and past of a large sector of the vintage hobby. They've been quite the rage for about 20 years now.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I don't predict the future. But graded cards are very much the present, and past of a large sector of the vintage hobby. They've been quite the rage for about 20 years now.

+1 Don't see them going away anytime soon.

[Dandor]

There are so many new people getting involved in vintage for investing and diversifying their portfolio in trading cards. To me it is absolutely silly to treat a piece of cardboard as an investment, when this is a hobby. The new people entering the hobby have no idea what they are doing and think that the majority of vintage cards are fake. Selling cards is a lot easier graded and when grading prices drop in 2023, more and more vintage will be slabbed. I like graded cards for my PC, but certain cards I don't want slabbed. My 1951 Topps Blue/Red backs I am working on raw, and it will stay that way. I want 1950's and 60's HOF players graded, and have used CSG at $10.80 a card to slab a bunch of cards in great shape or great eye-appeal. For example I bought a 1962 Topps Nellie Fox off of COMC and the card was a stunner. I got a CSG 8.5 and it was worth grading. I have a bunch of vintage HOF's in 1 to 5 shape, but they won't be graded. However, I will grade an early Topps card in 3/4 shape if it has perfect centering and a decent surface.

For people with raw collections, it will be a nightmare for you the next few years. More and more vintage will be graded and less raw will be available. I even bought a 1951 Red Back for cheap slabbed and cracked it out.

[homerunhitter]

Reading the posts above, I wonder if now is the time to sell raw vintage cards because more people are now buying raw vintage cards to grade?

[G1911]

It will be a lot cheaper and easier to just submit yours if you want them with a pretty little slip. Selling all your raw cards and taking the huge tax hit, then buying everything over again in a slab will prove far more costly in the end. If you want to hop on the bandwagon, hop on it.

[homerunhitter]

True but then you have to wait over a year to get your cards back from psa! I’m getting psa graded cards for $10-$20 already slabbed on eBay right now! Lots of bargains to be had as in general people are buying less due to the recession we are in.

[Zach Wheat]

I can see both sides of this discussion. Up until recently, I have never had a card graded and prefer my cards raw. However, my hobby has now turned in to something more - and I need to be more cautious about storage and how I view these items.

I was surprised to see there was an active market buying raw 1991 Topps Desert Shield cards of all the issues - one issue you certainly want to be careful about when buying. Still not sure what to make of this.....

[homerunhitter]

Can you elaborate on why you need to be more cautious about storage and how you view these items? I ask because I have the same thoughts as you but what to see if I’m right or wrong about my gut feeling as I keep going back and forth on this issue. Please explain! Thanks

[scmavl]

No, it's not $100 and no you don't have to wait a year anymore. PSA has opened levels down to $18 per card. Those might take a few months, but the $30-50 card levels get back to you in 3-10 weeks, in my recent experience. I'm no raving PSA fanboy, but I don't like it when folks who don't submit cards quote inaccurate information.

[homerunhitter]

Meow Meow!

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Can you elaborate on why you need to be more cautious about storage and how you view these items? I ask because I have the same thoughts as you but what to see if I’m right or wrong about my gut feeling as I keep going back and forth on this issue. Please explain! Thanks

Cards I purchased are now worth significantly more than when I viewed them as a hobby. Most of my cards were ungraded; some have deteriorated due to handling. For example, one set of cards, (1930 Fleer Whiz Bang) I noticed has surface wear. I have hardly taken these cards out of their original holder since their purchase. I figured this happened when I moved the storage container, which I have done several times, and they got jostled. They were stored in the original packaging (large Toploaders) and there wasn't one particular size that fit this issue due to its shape. So I submitted them for grading, hoping this adds a layer of protection. This is the first time I have ever had a card graded.

I collect Kellogg's issues as well. The cards develop cracks over time and it seems to be dependent upon how they are stored - mainly moisture and temperature. Having them graded won't solve this issue but I ended up buying a number of refurbished ammo cases with new rubber gaskets. A 7.62mm ammo case holds graded cards perfectly. I added a couple of silica gel packs and this seems to have solved the problem of variation in humidity. The rubber gasket on the cases seems to help keep the humidity constant. I am going to start keeping all of my graded cards in refurbished ammo cases. If you go this route - make sure to get refurbished cases with new gaskets. Some sellers don't replace the gasket. The larger ammo cases seem to be more suited to holding raw cards in top loaders snugly. They even have large size ammo cases (actually night vision goggle cases) which fit large cards like T3 Turkey Reds or 1951 Wheaties Premiums.

[homerunhitter]

That’s awesome! I never thought about ammo cans but that is a very cool idea. I’ll check into that option as well. For most of my vintage cards I think the psa graded case would offer so much more better protection long term. To my personally, the only down fall I see with graded cards is all the space they would take up! I could get more cards store in albums in a much smaller space. So storage wise. Albums see better than those bulky slabs!

[Exhibitman]

I drop stuff, so a slab is a good idea for anything condition sensitive. I am pretty much agnostic on grading but it is definitely a thrill to get a high grade from a TPG on something you send it. Talk about freakish spontaneous wealth creation. I got the grade on this one last week and was pretty pumped about how it graded out:



it is a 1/1 card with very sensitive foil finishing, so a 10 is pretty, pretty good. Damn thing looked perfect to me but what do I know, right?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I drop stuff, so a slab is a good idea for anything condition sensitive. I am pretty much agnostic on grading but it is definitely a thrill to get a high grade from a TPG on something you send it. Talk about freakish spontaneous wealth creation. I got the grade on this one last week and was pretty pumped about how it graded out:



it is a 1/1 card with very sensitive foil finishing, so a 10 is pretty, pretty good. Damn thing looked perfect to me but what do I know, right?

Nice card Adam!

[jason.1969]

Will always prefer raw to slabs but imagined if I ever threw down huge money for a card I would need to buy graded to avoid buying a fake. Thankfully the new eBay authentication puts me back to where I can buy raw very comfortably and have no need for graded/slabbed.

[gustomania]

I would say they both have a place tbh

I’m a PSA guy but would prefer raw to be honest, just like those pretty little slabs

[mortimer brewster]

I respect both views on graded vs raw.

A few years back somebody on this forum used the term "Free Range Cardboard" for raw cards. This is where I am at.

After attending the National this past week and watching many collectors fill their want lists, ungraded is alive and well.

When time comes to make a big ticket purchase to complete one of my sets (I'm thinking of you Mr 1967 Seaver) I may go the graded route.

I am a set collector who loves his binders. When the time comes for me to pass on, swim with the fishes, go to the Horizontal Hilton do the lawn limbo my family will have instructions on how to dispose of my sets probably consignment to a AH like Huggins and Scott, an AH that caters to the average collector because that is basically what I am, Mr average.

[homerunhitter]

That’s good to hear because all the YouTube, Facebook and Instagram posts I’m seeing coming about about the national skies graded cards everywhere!!! Seems like everyone at the show was carrying a pelican case of graded cards around!!!

[Exhibitman]

I want one of the pelican case back packs. Those looked pretty cool.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Nice card Adam!

Thanks. Check out this one from the same batch:

[Eric72]

Graded vintage cards will appeal to people for the foreseeable future. It provides a double-check from someone (other than the seller) that the card is authentic and unaltered...or at least, that's the idea.

With all the alterations (and occasional fakes) that slip past third party graders, it is by no means a perfect system. Add to that the instances in which fake or compromised TPG holders enter the marketplace, and we're probably no better off than we were back in the 80s.

The best route to take is the same as it has always been. Learn the set(s) you collect. Study commons to learn the paper stock, print techniques, and other details which allow you to identify genuine, unaltered cards. Buy a loupe, blacklight, and ruler. Use these to help pick up on fine details which may elude the unaided eye.

In the end, you just may find yourself enjoying the cards quite a bit more than all this damn plastic.

[homerunhitter]

Very true! But the more I read posts on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube videos, other sites and of course here, I’m seeing that the hobby thinks graded cards are cool and hip!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Very true! But the more I read posts on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube videos, other sites and of course here, I’m seeing that the hobby thinks graded cards are cool and hip!

Collect whatever you like, not what someone trying to pump the market says is cool. Graded has been the investor focus and ‘hip’ for decades now.

[homerunhitter]

Good point! I do however remember that one time when I was selling a bunch of vintage topps (1957-1970 topps) I went to a BIG TIME dealer in our hobby and was told “I can’t give you much for the raw cards because I have to factor in the time and effort it’s going to take me to grade these myself (this was way before the psa grading card boom) but if they were graded I could give you much more.” At that point that’s probably when I should of realized that in regards to resale value, graded gets more then raw (generally speaking) I think I just answered my own question!

[jiw98]

My son and I went to a show this weekend and there was only 1 or 2 tables that did not have graded cards. There were probably 15 dealers that only had graded cards. The graded cards were from many different grading companies. SGC,PSA,& CSG were the most popular, but there were companies that I haven't heard of. As much as I was reluctant to get into graded cards, I think that they are not going anywhere and are growing in popularity every day.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Good point! I do however remember that one time when I was selling a bunch of vintage topps (1957-1970 topps) I went to a BIG TIME dealer in our hobby and was told “I can’t give you much for the raw cards because I have to factor in the time and effort it’s going to take me to grade these myself (this was way before the psa grading card boom) but if they were graded I could give you much more.” At that point that’s probably when I should of realized that in regards to resale value, graded gets more then raw (generally speaking) I think I just answered my own question!

If you are investing to sell for a profit, then go do graded and high grade. Nothing has changed the last 20 years.

[homerunhitter]

Not looking to resale for a profit as I’m a true collector. Leaning more to do it for 20,30,40 years from now when my grandkids inherit them , they they won’t be taken advantage of some card dealer/card shop because as mentioned above, graded cards are becoming more popular by the day and I’m starting to think that years from now a box of vintage raw wine being in the save money as a bunch of vintage graded cards)

[G1911]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Not looking to resale for a profit as I’m a true collector. Leaning more to do it for 20,30,40 years from now when my grandkids inherit them , they they won’t be taken advantage of some card dealer/card shop because as mentioned above, graded cards are becoming more popular by the day and I’m starting to think that years from now a box of vintage raw wine being in the save money as a bunch of vintage graded cards)

If you're looking to sell in 20+ years, graded doesn't matter at all. The trendy slab then won't be the trendy slab now; just as PSA and SGC cards from 20 years ago sell for quite a bit less than more recently graded ones as their standards change and shift.

Heck, in 20-40 years, the odds are pretty good that grading will be done by a machine program, and eyeball graded cards will be heavily frowned upon. Collect now, grade in 20-40 years when you divest.

[homerunhitter]

Don’t want to leave the grading burden on my family when they inherit my collection in 20,30, 40 years. They will have enough to deal with instead of worrying how to submit cards for grading.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Don’t want to leave the grading burden on my family when they inherit my collection in 20,30, 40 years. They will have enough to deal with instead of worrying how to submit cards for grading.

Then cross your fingers nothing changes as technology evolves.

[homerunhitter]

You are absolutely right and this is a valid point. I totally get it and agree with you however, the other side of the coin is if cards aren’t graded now, you and I both know some 37 year old card dealer they still lives in his parents basement posting video Games and eating Cheetos and drinking Mountain Dew all day is going to try to take advantage of families that are trying to sell their loved ones collection because it will be way to easy to tell someone that doesn’t know about cards “hey, this stuff isn’t in good condition” I’ll give you $50 for it all! Hard to do that when they are all graded already. Plus most of the big name consignment services like probstein, only deal with graded cards. They won’t even accept raw cards if you sent them in (if a family decided to send in their loved ones cards) and like mentioned above some of the bigger card dealers/shops that I’ve dealt with totally took advantage of me because my cards were raw and not graded. (Offering to buy my cards for Pennies on the dollar!) so it is peace of mind for the most part but your right if technology changes and it will. This topic/conversation might all be a mute point anyway as people would want the most current form of graded technology.