Convince me otherwise...

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I would disagree as Hershiser's noise was made from 84' to 89' and then somewhat averagish after. He never really turned it back after the 90' season to his prior skillset. Without the shoulder injury, I would say it would be likely he would have a member of the hall.

Morris, while a completely different pitcher due to what Sparky wanted, had a far more complete career with not a 6 year arc, but far more accomplishments over time and was even grabbing CYA and MVP votes in 92 with 21 wins 16 years in. There are many short burst stories in the history of MLB, avoiding injury and a long career is hard. They both played 18 years, but Jack faced more than 3k more batters and 650+ innings and still has a fractionally better w-l. Those stinkers in 89 and 93 kill his W-l also.

That said, Orel's career was still pretty darn good and either argument is sound. I just think the injuries ruin the argument for Orel.

No argument here.

[Mike D.]

There are 66 starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame. Morris ranks 156th in career WAR among starting pitchers, a hair above Jon Lester and a hair below Bob Welch.

I agree on Cone (he's better than a LOT of us remember) - 62.3 Career WAR (54th place, with just a handful of non-HOFers above him).

[G1911]

I'd take Dave Stieb over Morris from that era too.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'd take Dave Stieb over Morris from that era too.

Stieb is certainly a better HOF option than Morris. His RC in PSA 9/10 has gone insane.

With the "Most SP WAR of the 1980's" he's the sabermetric counterpoint to Morris and his "most wins of the 1980's". Stieb had the 2nd most wins of the 80's.

BTW, Morris had the 12th most SP WAR of the 1980's, between Charlie Hough and Mario Soto.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Stieb is certainly a better HOF option than Morris. His RC in PSA 9/10 has gone insane.

With the "Most SP WAR of the 1980's" he's the sabermetric counterpoint to Morris and his "most wins of the 1980's". Stieb had the 2nd most wins of the 80's.

BTW, Morris had the 12th most SP WAR of the 1980's, between Charlie Hough and Mario Soto.

Morris was a pretty bad choice, whether one favors the new math or the old. We can probably find 30-50 starters not in who are more deserving than Morris. The Baines selection overshadowed this one pretty quickly, but the vets committees are not doing very good the last few years.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by G1911

Morris was a pretty bad choice, whether one favors the new math or the old. We can probably find 30-50 starters not in who are more deserving than Morris. The Baines selection overshadowed this one pretty quickly, but the vets committees are not doing very good the last few years.

Baines isn't even interesting to talk about. There's easily 100 guys ahead of him who aren't in (and most of them shouldn't be)

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Baines isn't even interesting to talk about. There's easily 100 guys ahead of him who aren't in (and most of them shouldn't be)

In my book, Baines and Sutter are the worst selections of all time, exempting Frisch’s corruption.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by G1911

Morris was a pretty bad choice, whether one favors the new math or the old. We can probably find 30-50 starters not in who are more deserving than Morris. The Baines selection overshadowed this one pretty quickly, but the vets committees are not doing very good the last few years.

Yes, turns out small, in-person committees behind closed doors aren't the best way to make good decisions. Who knew?

I think the committees did pretty well this last year, although I thought it'd finally be Dick Allen's year. REALLY interested to see who's on the ballot this time around, and who they elect, if anyone (1980-date careers).

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Yes, turns out small, in-person committees behind closed doors aren't the best way to make good decisions. Who knew?

I think the committees did pretty well this last year, although I thought it'd finally be Dick Allen's year. REALLY interested to see who's on the ballot this time around, and who they elect, if anyone (1980-date careers).

I for one am shocked that this has produced terrible choices! Closed door ballots of old friends are usually so objective.

I’m okay with this years ballot, personally I think Minoso should have gone in many years ago. The others are all very borderline, in my view I think they barely miss, so their election is not a problem. It doesn’t lower the standards of the hall like some others.

I think Allen is basically inevitable to get in at this point, and I would probably vote for him even with his short career.