The Knickerbockers -- Now In Living Color!

[bigfanNY]

Steve I went through your pictures and I see many more differences than similarities. The side by side points out clear differences in eye and nose shapes. And unfortunately the differences I believe prove the negative. That this is not a stereoview if the Knickerbockers.

[sphere and ash]

Edward Anthony was not, to my knowledge, a member of the Knickerbocker Club. Two of his brothers played in 1846.

[SteveS]

Jonathan, thank you for looking and providing your opinion! Paul, from what I've read, Edward was affiliated with the Knickerbockers, but there is some question as to whether he played in any games where there are box scores. As you mention, his brothers Henry and David were listed in box scores, and Henry was a long-time member of the team. He was also a partner with Edward in one of the founding and largest photography businesses in America. They started in stereoviews right around the period when this one was taken.

[tiger8mush]

Feel free to disregard my opinion, as I have zero experience in the field of facial comparison. But the only similarities I see in the side-by-side photos are that they are skinny white guys from 1800s with semi-similar hairstyles. Noses, ears, chin, cheekbones, eye & surrounding orbital features all appear different to me in every photo to the point that I can't convince myself there is a realistic chance that ANY are of the same person.

I'm open to being wrong, but at this stage I don't see enough evidence to become a believer.

[sphere and ash]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Jonathan, thank you for looking and providing your opinion! Paul, from what I've read, Edward was affiliated with the Knickerbockers, but there is some question as to whether he played in any games where there are box scores. As you mention, his brothers Henry and David were listed in box scores, and Henry was a long-time member of the team. He was also a partner with Edward in one of the founding and largest photography businesses in America. They started in stereoviews right around the period when this one was taken.

I have never seen anything that mentioned Edward affiliating with the club. If you can share the source, it would be helpful. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that Edward was a member, it does raise the question of why this isn’t on an E&HT Anthony mount.

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by sphere and ash

I have never seen anything that mentioned Edward affiliating with the club. If you can share the source, it would be helpful. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that Edward was a member, it does raise the question of why this isn’t on an E&HT Anthony mount.

Paul, here is one reference I found after a quick look.
Also, I too wondered about the Anthony label. This is pure speculation, but perhaps it was meant to be a personal memento rather than a commercial enterprise. It doesn't have any evidence of ever having any label at all, so that leads me to think that regardless of who produced it it was not made to be reproduced widely.

Tiger and trd, thank you for looking!

[sphere and ash]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Paul, here is one reference I found after a quick look.
Also, I too wondered about the Anthony label. This is pure speculation, but perhaps it was meant to be a personal memento rather than a commercial enterprise. It doesn't have any evidence of ever having any label at all, so that leads me to think that regardless of who produced it it was not made to be reproduced widely.

“May also have been involved” is a stretch—both for your argument and the evidence. I’ve read the Knick club books and never found any mention of Edward. I don’t know Peter personally, but I would think that his reference of Edward is along the lines of, “he had two brothers in the club, so maybe.”

I just can’t imagine the Anthonys stocking branded mounts for commercial use and plain mounts for personal use. Your dating of the mount places it at the peak of Henry Anthony’s powers as a stereoscopic photographer.

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by sphere and ash

“May also have been involved” is a stretch—both for your argument and the evidence. I’ve read the Knick club books and never found any mention of Edward. I don’t know Peter personally, but I would think that his reference of Edward is along the lines of, “he had two brothers in the club, so maybe.”

I just can’t imagine the Anthonys stocking branded mounts for commercial use and plain mounts for personal use. Your dating of the mount places it at the peak of Henry Anthony’s powers as a stereoscopic photographer.

When he mentions the father, he says specifically that there is no evidence to back up the claim of a Knickerbocker affiliation. He did not do the same with Edward, so there must have been something that backs up a "may" claim. I wish he would have stated more, but "may" is not an exclusion.

The Anthonys started the stereoview part of their business in 1857. Harry Wright was a Knick from 1857-1862. If I am correct on the Harry ID, perhaps this was a pic to commemorate the new kid's joining the team, and also used as an early attempt by the Anthonys to perfect their stereoview technique and/or train their staff how to do it. Again, that is pure speculation. I wish there were markings on the card or something distinguishing in the background to say exactly where and by whom this was taken. However, as noted above, the tintype I posted depicts men with strong resemblances (at least in my opinion) to the known photos of Adams and Debost, as well as to the corresponding men in my stereoview. That tintype does indeed have a backing from "Anthony's Photographic Bulletin."

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Steve I went through your pictures and I see many more differences than similarities. The side by side points out clear differences in eye and nose shapes. And unfortunately the differences I believe prove the negative. That this is not a stereoview if the Knickerbockers.

I'm just reading through this thread for the first time, but I agree with Jonathan. I just don't see the similarities, other than them being bearded white guys from the mid-19th century.