new low for the ebay authenticity thing

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Peter, don't disagree at all. Whomever is looking at these cards is just giving an opinion, so there is no definitive decisions being made that could potentially push back liability on the TPG or online selling platform. I'm guessing they're basically saying that if it looks like something may not be correct, we're just calling off the transaction and sending the money and cards back to their respective buyers and sellers. Not really sure what will happen otherwise if they find what they think is a fake slab/flip. The TPG doing the examining can only cancel a cert # for their own slabbed cards, they certainly don't have any say so over another TPG's slabbed cards that I'm aware of. And as someone else pointed out, canceling a cert # for a faked flip/slab then can cause an issue for the person that owns the real/legitimate card/slab. Can only imagine how happy a Registry person would be to see his/her ranking negatively affected were one of their cards to be de-certified in this manner, especially if they weren't contacted and given advance notice first. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to listen in to that exchange, were one ever to happen.

That is also why I'm guessing that if they do find what they think is an issue with a slabbed card that they will still return it to the seller. Taking and confiscating a questionable card holder, along with the card in the slab, won't go over real well with a seller if the people examining the card holder erred and there really wasn't anything wrong or questionable with the card itself.

Hi Bob,

In the past when PSA has made the claim that a fake slab was provided to them on a review, outside of the AG program, they have broken out the card from the holder, deactivated the cert and returned the card to the customer in a card saver.

I think we can be sure that PSA is not going to return a PSA slabbed card in the sealed holder to the seller if the holder or flip do not pass the authenticity test. Not sure if what they would do if that same card were in an SGC, CSG or Beckett holder.

Hopefully a situation will not occur where PSA will take the opportunity to use the "fake holder" claim to take an altered card off the market and pass the cost onto the seller rather than writing a check to buy the card back.

In the meantime I have yet to hear a single person state their graded card did not get authenticated. With people being as prolific with their social media posts I would think we would have heard something, no?

Chase

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Hi Bob,

In the past when PSA has made the claim that a fake slab was provided to them on a review, outside of the AG program, they have broken out the card from the holder, deactivated the cert and returned the card to the customer in a card saver.

I think we can be sure that PSA is not going to return a PSA slabbed card in the sealed holder to the seller if the holder or flip do not pass the authenticity test. Not sure if what they would do if that same card were in an SGC, CSG or Beckett holder.

Hopefully a situation will not occur where PSA will take the opportunity to use the "fake holder" claim to take an altered card off the market and pass the cost onto the seller rather than writing a check to buy the card back.

In the meantime I have yet to hear a single person state their graded card did not get authenticated. With people being as prolific with their social media posts I would think we would have heard something, no?

Chase

Thanks Chase,

I did not know that is what they have done in the past. But it makes sense that they still return the card to limit any potential liability on their part should their examiners make a mistake. I still wonder if they'll do that in regard to this new authentication program though since this is something mandated by the online seller, and not necessarily being voluntarily requested by the buyer or the seller in these deals, and also potentially exposes the online seller to liability since they mandated the authentication program and hired the TPG.

And a great question if they would break out a card from some other TPG's slab because they don't think it is legit or possibly been tampered with. Like you, I have not heard of any instance where a card's slab has not passed authentication.....yet. Will be interesting to hear what they do in cases where a slabbed card does eventually get deemed as bad or tampered with, and if there is any difference in the treatment between a case where it is their own slab, or that of a different TPG.

And if there is a different treatment depending on which TPG's slab they find an issue with, then the independence question may really become an issue.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Thanks Chase,

I did not know that is what they have done in the past. But it makes sense that they still return the card to limit any potential liability on their part should their examiners make a mistake. I still wonder if they'll do that in regard to this new authentication program though since this is something mandated by the online seller, and not necessarily being voluntarily requested by the buyer or the seller in these deals, and also potentially exposes the online seller to liability since they mandated the authentication program and hired the TPG.

And a great question if they would break out a card from some other TPG's slab because they don't think it is legit or possibly been tampered with. Like you, I have not heard of any instance where a card's slab has not passed authentication.....yet. Will be interesting to hear what they do in cases where a slabbed card does eventually get deemed as bad or tampered with, and if there is any difference in the treatment between a case where it is their own slab, or that of a different TPG.

And if there is a different treatment depending on which TPG's slab they find an issue with, then the independence question may really become an issue.

I think...I understand the purpose or intent of this but it is fraught with issues in my opinion. From my vantage point as a seller and buyer I have felt eBay did a pretty decent job of keeping the site free from fraud. I know this statement upset Steve to no end but this has been my experience.

eBay has had a tendency to try to fix things that were never broken. Obviously from their vantage point the AG is serving some purpose. Maybe there was a lot more fraud than we know of. I would prefer to see eBay and all the grading companies working to remove the massive volume of altered cards before they put time and effort into checking to see if my recently graded CSG card was really holdered by them. Just saying...

[Peter_Spaeth]

In 24 years of heavy buying on ebay, there was a total of ONE occasion on which someone sent me something other than what I bought. It was not an item the guarantee would apply to, and in any event I got my money back within one day. I have to believe my experience is typical of buyers in the card space. Are they REALLY saving us from anything nontrivial? Sure, you can posit the box of rocks hypothetical, but how often does that really happen? I don't think a program this disruptive can be justified by a once in a blue moon type of fraud.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 24 years of heavy buying on ebay, there was a total of ONE occasion on which someone sent me something other than what I bought. It was not an item the guarantee would apply to, and in any event I got my money back within one day. I have to believe my experience is typical of buyers in the card space. Are they REALLY saving us from anything nontrivial? Sure, you can posit the box of rocks hypothetical, but how often does that really happen? I don't think a program this disruptive can be justified by a once in a blue moon type of fraud.

Bad news sells. There are thousands of transactions that are problematic. We hear about them and repeat them. At the same time we ignore the millions of transactions that occur without a hitch. You can apply that to any 'issue' that might arise in any part of life.

But if it can save only one child...

[Snapolit1]

Completely missed in all of this is how the eBay program protects sellers against specious claims. In the past few years I've had a half dozen of so sellers come back to me (usually modern cards) and ask for some bullshit partial refund for a scratch on a case that supposedly wasn't apparent or some other nonsense. The level of stupidity is off the chart. How about "card doesn't seem as sharp as it did in the picture. How about a $50 refund." And if you don't give in to them they slam you with lousy feedback and you are off to the races with eBay dealing with that. I haven't read all the fine print, but would hope some of this nonsense could be eliminated with the new eBay system.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Completely missed in all of this is how the eBay program protects sellers against specious claims. In the past few years I've had a half dozen of so sellers come back to me (usually modern cards) and ask for some bullshit partial refund for a scratch on a case that supposedly wasn't apparent or some other nonsense. The level of stupidity is off the chart. How about "card doesn't seem as sharp as it did in the picture. How about a $50 refund." And if you don't give in to them they slam you with lousy feedback and you are off to the races with eBay dealing with that. I haven't read all the fine print, but would hope some of this nonsense could be eliminated with the new eBay system.

I would be surprised if it would foreclose the not as described type of claims, other than a claim by the buyer he received a completely different item.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I think...I understand the purpose or intent of this but it is fraught with issues in my opinion. From my vantage point as a seller and buyer I have felt eBay did a pretty decent job of keeping the site free from fraud. I know this statement upset Steve to no end but this has been my experience.

eBay has had a tendency to try to fix things that were never broken. Obviously from their vantage point the AG is serving some purpose. Maybe there was a lot more fraud than we know of. I would prefer to see eBay and all the grading companies working to remove the massive volume of altered cards before they put time and effort into checking to see if my recently graded CSG card was really holdered by them. Just saying...

LOL

I hear you. There is no perfect answer that covers everyone's questions and issues 100%. Ebay obviously had/has some intention(s) in mind when proposing and implementing this new program, but they have not seen fit to share that with everyone that uses their platform, so the best we all can do is guess as to what their true and ultimate intentions are.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

I hear you. There is no perfect answer that covers everyone's questions and issues 100%. Ebay obviously had/has some intention(s) in mind when proposing and implementing this new program, but they have not seen fit to share that with everyone that uses their platform, so the best we all can do is guess as to what their true and ultimate intentions are.

Must be one of those situations that is on a need to know basis and clearly we do not need to know.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Must be one of those situations that is on a need to know basis and clearly we do not need to know.

Ain't it the truth.....ain't it the truth? LOL

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

From my vantage point as a seller and buyer I have felt eBay did a pretty decent job of keeping the site free from fraud. I know this statement upset Steve to no end but this has been my experience.

This. I have been buying on eBay for 21 years. I have never once been scammed or defrauded. By applying the most basic of common sense, I've mostly avoided it. As a buyer, that eBay sides with me 100% no matter what for several weeks after a card is delivered leaves essentially no room to get defrauded anyways (which has only happened a couple times, and by big name sellers). Even if I bought a fake or the seller sent a fake instead of a legit card pictured, it doesn't really matter. I return it, eBay pays the shipping, and then eBay forces the seller to refund me.

Having every single card (or slab, they won't even review the actual card the time, which should maybe signal that this isn't about cards at all anymore) of value go through this review cannot possibly be cheaper than the old policy. Nor does it actually afford greater protection. I know this apparently sends some members into rages, but oh well.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by G1911

…I return it, eBay pays the shipping, and then eBay forces the seller to refund me.

FWIW, the seller pays for return shipping.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Eric72

FWIW, the seller pays for return shipping.

Thank you for correcting. So it costs eBay $0 and gives the buyer a full refund on anything.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by G1911

Thank you for correcting. So it costs eBay $0 and gives the buyer a full refund on anything.

Generally speaking, yes. There are time limits, though. Ungraded trading cards have the shortest return window, if I'm not mistaken. Last time I checked, it was three days (if the seller doesn't offer returns) from confirmed receipt of the item.

This was put into place on the heels of Topps Project 2020. When values cratered, buyers were intentionally damaging cards and forcing returns weeks later.

It makes sense on another front, too. If an active player suffers an injury, the seller shouldn't be forced to give a refund and take the item back.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

This. I have been buying on eBay for 21 years. I have never once been scammed or defrauded. By applying the most basic of common sense, I've mostly avoided it. As a buyer, that eBay sides with me 100% no matter what for several weeks after a card is delivered leaves essentially no room to get defrauded anyways (which has only happened a couple times, and by big name sellers). Even if I bought a fake or the seller sent a fake instead of a legit card pictured, it doesn't really matter. I return it, eBay pays the shipping, and then eBay forces the seller to refund me.

Having every single card (or slab, they won't even review the actual card the time, which should maybe signal that this isn't about cards at all anymore) of value go through this review cannot possibly be cheaper than the old policy. Nor does it actually afford greater protection. I know this apparently sends some members into rages, but oh well.

It is no shock that some people love the AG program. They do not have to use common sense when buying on eBay, take the time to educate themselves or take steps to vet their sellers and instead pass that responsibility onto someone else. All the while they can maintain the illusion that the card they bought, which might be altered, is 100% legit. Ya gotta love it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It is no shock that some people love the AG program. They do not have to use common sense when buying on eBay, take the time to educate themselves or take steps to vet their sellers and instead pass that responsibility onto someone else. All the while they can maintain the illusion that the card they bought, which might be altered, is 100% legit. Ya gotta love it.

I'm against it, but I see why others might like the raw card version. I do not understand getting triggered over encountering posts that think authenticating slabs is silly.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm against it, but I see why others might like the raw card version.

Agreed.

I do not understand getting triggered over encountering posts that think authenticating slabs is silly.

Sadly I do understand it. Sign of the times. The hobby is not immune.

[Yoda]

I wonder where customer satisfaction figures into Ebay's business model, if at all. Here is a service, the majority here thinks is unnecessary, that is being forced upon buyers who really don't want all the hideous bells and whistles. All they want is their precious piece of cardboard.
the licensing agreement with CSG stinks and is clearly a conflict of interest for Ebay.

[Exhibitman]

Jim, I'm sure someone somewhere has a shelf of these uggo padfolios proudly displayed. Perhaps next to the Franklin Mint Liberace plate?

And for the next bit of overkill I am now seeing 'otter boxes' for slabs



Encase your card in a PSA coffin, wrap the sarcophagus in a sleeve, then put it in one of these cases. And then undoubtedly into a padded carrying case.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Better still, into a vault.

[luciobar1980]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Jim, I'm sure someone somewhere has a shelf of these uggo padfolios proudly displayed. Perhaps next to the Franklin Mint Liberace plate?

And for the next bit of overkill I am now seeing 'otter boxes' for slabs



Encase your card in a PSA coffin, wrap the sarcophagus in a sleeve, then put it in one of these cases. And then undoubtedly into a padded carrying case.

I agree that these are utterly dumb.