No More Neighs (in other words, beating a dead horse)...

[Eric72]

The two-grades-lower "thing" has always bugged me, albeit for a different reason.

Take your example of a PSA 9 OC. If graded a straight 7, some buyers would say, "...with that centering, I can only price it like a 5..." (looking to whack the card again when trying to buy it from you)

I wish ALL graded cards had sub-grades. It would make things much simpler:

• Are you a "pointy corners" collector? Get the cards with a 9 or 10 for corners.
• Want to make sure there are no surface scratches that don't show up in photos? Subgrades should have you covered.
• Do you worship at the Altar of Almighty Centering? Go for it; the subgrade is on there if you don't trust your eyes.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Eric72

The two-grades-lower "thing" has always bugged me, albeit for a different reason.

Take your example of a PSA 9 OC. If graded a straight 7, some buyers would say, "...with that centering, I can only price it like a 5..." (looking to whack the card again when trying to buy it from you)

Yeah, agreed. That's exactly what I was alluding to near the end of my post with the PSA 5 example. Centering (good or bad) is evident to anyone looking at a card, and the standards set forth by the TPGs are parameters they invented. Why are the 'acceptable' centering percentages on a 7 different from an 8 or 9? They should grade the card itself and leave the centering acceptability to the buyer.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

\\Why are the 'acceptable' centering percentages on a 7 different from an 8 or 9? They should grade the card itself and leave the centering acceptability to the buyer.

Because the criteria for a 7 says that the centering can be off up to 75/25. If that is suddenly no different for a 9, then people are going to get all po'd saying "Well that's not a mint card, that's OC!"

Or are you saying throw the different standards out the window. Make any card greater than 60/40 OC (where PSA 9's and 10's should be...) have the OC qualifier and let buyers judge everything else on their own?

[steve B]

Excellent points.

I don't see much difference except on two of them.
4 has a soft corner, so I'm thinking it's a real 7
2.... It's faded. Interesting that yellow went but red is ok. I don't see even a 7 for that one. Somebody got lucky.

[BobC]

I don't subscribe to, or care about the Registry, so don't really follow it or know much about how it truly works. But my understanding is that collector's collections/sets are ranked based on the average PSA grades of their cards. So how does that work for Registry ranking purposes when one person has a card graded PSA9(OC) versus another person with the same card graded a straight up PSA7 where there is no qualifier shown, but the downgrade from a 9 was due to the card also being slightly OC?

Does PSA somehow adjust for the qualifiers, so the Registry people see no difference, or does the PSA9 with a qualifier actually get more credit than a PSA7 with no qualifier in the Registry rankings? If they don't adjust for that, I can see a lot of Registry people getting pissed if they do away with qualifiers in the grading of cards going forward. Gives a potential unfair advantage to Registry people that had higher graded cards with qualifiers already included in their registry sets/collections.

[mq711]

I would prefer a psa9 OC than a straight 7 because the 7 will still look OC. My hope was that one of the new grading companies would give a centering percentage (60/40;25/75) on the slab and leave it out of the grade factoring. This should be the easiest task to incorporate AI.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by mq711

My hope was that one of the new grading companies would give a centering percentage (60/40;25/75) on the slab and leave it out of the grade factoring.

That might make things easier on the graders, but it would badly skew the ability to track price ranges per grade if centering standards are removed from each of the grades. An 8 that is 50/50 will sell for high, while an 8 that is only 80/20 s-s will not. A nicely centered 7 suddenly becomes more expensive than a badly centered 9. The figures would quickly go all over the place.

Centering has been tied to grades P - Mint for at least 40 years now in some way, shape, or form. The TPG's changed the game here in terms of detail, but even in the 1980's you had Beckett and their "slightly OC, OC, badly OC" and most people agreeing that no moderately OC card was truly mint. While I think the problem today continues to be due in large part to the fact that many collectors can't or aren't willing to understand centering standards and how they work among the number grades - I'm not sure the answer is throwing out that model entirely.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

Excellent points.

I don't see much difference except on two of them.
4 has a soft corner, so I'm thinking it's a real 7
2.... It's faded. Interesting that yellow went but red is ok. I don't see even a 7 for that one. Somebody got lucky.

Actually the magenta(red) is also faded. On the faded card the magenta has a lighter/more pink tint to it than it was printed with.

I have owned several pairs of the same card that was one faded and one really missing the yellow ink. The magenta is almost always pinker on the faded cards in my experiance. Of course this can change from year to year and brand to brand.

I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[JollyElm]

And here is the big reveal...



The PSA 9 OC is one of the better/best centered cards in this group.

Here's the weirdness. Say none of the other 7 cards got the (theoretical?) two grade drop by checking the 'no qualifiers' box on the submission form, and they are all legitimate straight 7s. That means the 9 OC shares the same type of centering, but the other superior characteristics of the card (corners, focus, etc.) makes it two number grades 'better.' Why, then, are they basically valued at the same dollar amount? Because one has a dreaded qualifier on the label?? Give me the PSA 9 OC any day.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Actually the magenta(red) is also faded. On the faded card the magenta has a lighter/more pink tint to it than it was printed with.

I have owned several pairs of the same card that was one faded and one really missing the yellow ink. The magenta is almost always pinker on the faded cards in my experiance. Of course this can change from year to year and brand to brand.

I am no expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I would disagree with the "not an expert" part.