Tinker Evers Chance photo

[RCMcKenzie]

Bob, I'm confused. What are Bryan and you guys saying? It's Evers and Chance and a bartender? A random fan, that looks kind of like Tinker? They cheers-ed up a picture and LOTG sold it as a Cubs photo 90 years later? I'm glad to be wrong. Someone with more bona fides than me can back me up.

[Jobu]

I think that is 100% Evers and Chance and is probably someone other than Tinker. The hair is combed the wrong way, the guy in the middle appears to have less hair on the left widow's peak than either young or old Tinker, his eyebrows are arched while Tinkers are straight and fuller, his face is rounder, eyes seem a bit further apart and a different shape, and the teeth are different - though teeth change over time and maybe Tinker broke and messed up a bunch between the Thompson photo and 1924 (if that is when this one was taken). There are lots of photos out there with players with restaurant/nightclub owners, team management, and private citizens, so I don't think that is a stretch.

Given Chance's California ties, it makes some sense that it would have been sent to San Francisco for local use.

I don't think it can 100% be ruled out as Tinker - maybe he gained weight he later lost, changed his hair, and messed up his teeth - just saying to me that doesn't feel like it is Tinker.

[D. Bergin]

Yeah, I wanted it to be Tinker, Evers, Chance, but that middle guy, based on Jobu's comparison...not Tinker.

They both have protruding left ears, but look at the inner ear structure. Much smoother on the guy chomping on the cigar.

[Casey2296]

Also note in the Thompson photo Tinkers eyes are blue (or light pigment), where the photo in question looks like a darker pigment.

[D. Bergin]

For a comparison, Here's a Chance, Tinker, Evers photo from 1923 when Chance was managing the Red Sox.

[Yoda]

I originally thought the venue might be Toots Shore's saloon in NYC, but the timing isn't right.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I originally thought the venue might be Toots Shore's saloon in NYC, but the timing isn't right.

It could be Howard, Fine and Howard?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Bob, I'm confused. What are Bryan and you guys saying? It's Evers and Chance and a bartender? A random fan, that looks kind of like Tinker? They cheers-ed up a picture and LOTG sold it as a Cubs photo 90 years later? I'm glad to be wrong. Someone with more bona fides than me can back me up.

Hey Rob,

In looking back at the original photo sold by LOTG, it does appear that the person supposed to be Tinker doesn't quite as well resemble other period photos of Joe Tinker as much as other period photos of Evers and Chance match the images of them in the LOTG photo. And now with the addition of the 1923 photo of the trio, again, the image of Tinker doesn't quite as well match up with his supposed image in the LOTG photo. It seems possible that may just be someone other than Tinker in that LOTG photo, but as of now, no true proof, just speculation.

I am surprised to now see a known 1923 photo of the trio that Dave posted, as that belies the notion that the three were very unlikely to have gotten together for a photo in the early 1920s. Still, the image of Tinker in the 1923 photo looks to be older (and much heavier in the face and especially the neck) than the supposed image of Tinker in the LOTG photo. Now based on EddieP's comment about the wide ties becoming popular in 1924, that new photo of the trio from 1923 appears to coincide with that observation as it definitely shows Tinker and Evers in skinnier ties. So, if the timeline for that fashion change is correct, you'd not expect Tinker to look so much older in the 1923 photo than his supposed image in the LOTG photo. Also, in that 1923 photo Tinker looks to be about the same height as Evers, which he supposedly was at 5'9. I know the camera angle and perspective can be misleading, but in the LOTG photo, Evers is definitely taller than the person supposed to be Tinker. When you look at the 1923 photo, you can look at the top edge of the row of seats behind Tinker and Evers to get a better perspective. Take a look at the angle or line created by the top of the seats behind them, and compare that to the angle or line from the tops of Tinker's and Evers' left ears. Now go back to the LOTG photo and look at how the tops of their ears match up. Unfortunately you can't see Evers' left ear in this photo, and the person supposed to be Tinker has their head tilted to their right, but you can still see that the top of Evers' right ear and the top of the supposed Tinker's left ear, don't make sense to them being the same height. I know that people's ears are not always symmetrical and exactly the same height and location on both sides of their face, but that would seem to be too coincidental for that to be a significant and relevant factor in this instance. It is very confusing to say the least.

The one factor we know for certain is that Chance passed in September of 1924, so the LOTG photo had to have been taken before then. If that is Joe Tinker or a doppelganger of his in the LOTG photo, I'm not 100% sure either way. I'm still slightly leaning toward it not being him in the LOTG photo though. And as to who it might be if it is not Joe Tinker, your guess is as good as mine.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobC

I am surprised to now see a known 1923 photo of the trio that Dave posted, as that belies the notion that the three were very unlikely to have gotten together for a photo in the early 1920s.

Bob, if you look at that photo close, Chance looks happy enough, but Tinker and Evers look like they would rather be anywhere else but next to each other.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Bob, if you look at that photo close, Chance looks happy enough, but Tinker and Evers look like they would rather be anywhere else but next to each other.

LOL

I saw that immediately as well Dave, which goes along with story of how much they supposedly disliked each other. I didn't say anything before, thinking someone else would post saying that is too far out there to help with the photo ID. I concur with you though.

[Yoda]

I wonder if the guy in the middle, IMO not Joe Tinker, just might be the owner of the joint where the 'foto was taken trying to get some publicity.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I wonder if the guy in the middle, IMO not Joe Tinker, just might be the owner of the joint where the 'foto was taken trying to get some publicity.

This is what I think. For all the comments regarding Tinker not looking like the guy in the original photo, nobody's mentioned what I think is most obvious - Tinker's nose was long, straight, and thin. The guy in the photo doesn't match that.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This is what I think. For all the comments regarding Tinker not looking like the guy in the original photo, nobody's mentioned what I think is most obvious - Tinker's nose was long, straight, and thin. The guy in the photo doesn't match that.

Agree, and thought so as well Mark, but didn't say anything as him chomping on a cigar in that LOTG photo could possibly make his facial features seem a little distorted. Another point in the not likely Joe Tinker column for sure.

[D. Bergin]

Another one with Tinker and Chance from 1923. Evers nowhere in sight and a smile on Tinker's face this time.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I wonder if the guy in the middle, IMO not Joe Tinker, just might be the owner of the joint where the 'foto was taken trying to get some publicity.

That would make sense, especially if it ended up in another framed display on the wall in the place. What doesn't make sense is this particular photo supposedly ending up in, or having something to do with, Hearst's International Film Service company, especially in regard to a San Francisco office location. IFS was into putting Hearst comic strip properties at the tail end of newsreels. What can that possibly have to do with a photo of supposedly Tinker, Evers, and Chance?