Share your contrarian hobby opinions

JustinD · #1 06-24-2022, 10:07 AM

I can quite literally purchase a graded 52' Mantle at any time, on any day. There are multiples for sale at noon on Christmas Day and from a multitude of locations. It is far more difficult to locate a listing for thousands of other items. It is not even in my list of top 200 cards as they are a dime a dozen. I know I am far in the minority on this opinion, but seeing one is a complete meh...

70s-80s OPC cards are vastly undervalued for the same reason the Mantle is overvalued. Just try to locate PSA 9-10 80s OPC anything and you have to convince the 1 or 2 people with one to sell it. The QC was horrific, it's like Bob and Doug Mackenzie ran those cutters.

That said, both of those are going to likely stay in their own lane for value eternally.

Oh, by the way... if you are the lovely owner of one of the 3 graded 1981 OPC Lance Parrish 9's (because a 10 doesn't exist) please let me know. Hell, if you have a Parrish that's just not 90-10 centering, doesn't look like it spent time in a kid's velcro wallet and gradable let me know, lol.

skelly423 · #2 06-24-2022, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

I can quite literally purchase a graded 52' Mantle at any time, on any day. There are multiples for sale at noon on Christmas Day and from a multitude of locations. It is far more difficult to locate a listing for thousands of other items. It is not even in my list of top 200 cards as they are a dime a dozen. I know I am far in the minority on this opinion, but seeing one is a complete meh...

I'm with you on this. The same is true for most of the "big" cards in the hobby. The 1956 Mantle, 1955 Clemente, 1954 Aaron, 1933 Goudey Ruth #144, T206 Red portrait Cobb are everywhere. You can buy one any day of the year, all it takes is money. The demand supports the prices, but none of these cards are rare.

BobbyStrawberry · #3 06-24-2022, 10:51 AM

Tobacco cards are the "correct" size. Standard cards are too big!

jchcollins · #4 06-24-2022, 07:39 PM

Two things I'm fairly convinced on that most of the hobby probably disagrees with:

1. For my money, prewar cards are a bust / bad value compared to postwar vintage. While it's true that for most of my collecting life that they have not been readily affordable for me (I started with cards at age 9 in 1986...) - even today they simply don't hold a value for me that can compare with later cards: I can get a beater maybe up to G T206 common for the same price as I can a midgrade postwar HOF'er whose name is not Mantle. Guess which card I'm going to choose?

2. For those that care purely about the cards and not other things - even if only subconsciously - professional grading in the 21st century has become a farce. Graders have tried to convince the collecting world that something subjective is inherently objective - and have done a poor job of it at that. Between the scandals and shifting technical standards in practice if not in writing - I'm done. I've seen both PSA and SGC miss on honest grading as often as they get it right, and there is not a single, known-name accepted grading house today that has not survived at least one major scandal. Appreciate your cards for what they are and are not - and free them from their slabs - they are the work of an evil conjurer.

Oh - and another thing - centering as the end all, be all of condition criteria was not accepted as a "thing" by anyone serious in the hobby before the advent of professional grading and PSA. Fact.

Carter08 · #5 06-24-2022, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Two things I'm fairly convinced on that most of the hobby probably disagrees with:

1. For my money, prewar cards are a bust / bad value compared to postwar vintage. While it's true that for most of my collecting life that they have not been readily affordable for me (I started with cards at age 9 in 1986...) - even today they simply don't hold a value for me that can compare with later cards: I can get a beater maybe up to G T206 common for the same price as I can a midgrade postwar HOF'er whose name is not Mantle. Guess which card I'm going to choose?

2. For those that care purely about the cards and not other things - even if only subconsciously - professional grading in the 21st century has become a farce. Graders have tried to convince the collecting world that something subjective is inherently objective - and have done a poor job of it at that. Between the scandals and shifting technical standards in practice if not in writing - I'm done. I've seen both PSA and SGC miss on honest grading as often as they get it right, and there is not a single, known-name accepted grading house today that has not survived at least one major scandal. Appreciate your cards for what they are and are not - and free them from their slabs - they are the work of an evil conjurer.

Oh - and another thing - centering as the end all, be all of condition criteria was not accepted as a "thing" by anyone serious in the hobby before the advent of professional grading and PSA. Fact.

I do wonder if the manufacturers knew there would be an obsession about borders if they would have done away with them and just went with a solid color card with no borders. Or would they have liked the obsession?

jchcollins · #6 06-24-2022, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

I do wonder if the manufacturers knew there would be an obsession about borders if they would have done away with them and just went with a solid color card with no borders. Or would they have liked the obsession?

I think your answer there lies in those that inherited the companies - when was the last time before this year that Topps made a base set with defined borders? They shied away from it for a very long time after grading became a thing. I'm not an expert on ultra modern, but that much seems obvious.

Carter08 · #7 06-24-2022, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I think your answer there lies in those that inherited the companies - when was the last time before this year that Topps made a base set with defined borders? They shied away from it for a very long time after grading became a thing. I'm not an expert on ultra modern, but that much seems obvious.

You�re right - modern has sort of done away with it.

JustinD · #8 06-24-2022, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

I do wonder if the manufacturers knew there would be an obsession about borders if they would have done away with them and just went with a solid color card with no borders. Or would they have liked the obsession?

The absence of a white border does not in any way eliminate centering from a grading platform or equation. It continues to be just as measurable and obvious to the collector from the visual clues of the card of photo and text.

I was just as concerned about centering as were the majority of collectors I knew in 1982 as I am in 2022. Grading just recognized that value was and is placed in the beauty of symmetry as has been recognized in art since its creation.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #9 06-25-2022, 05:57 AM

Thankfully, many reading this will agree with the following, but we know it's not the prevailing attitude for most these days.

This applies to your own collections and has nothing to do with maximizing profits when it's time to sell: Whatever you wish to collect, be it cards, autographs or memorabilia, relying solely on a TPA's opinion is ridiculous. Learn as much as you can and become your own authority. After all, it's your collection, so try and take some personal responsibility for it and not buy blindly into a third party opinion. How is there even any fun in that? Doing this with any sort of confidence takes years, and no matter how long you're involved with it, you'll never know everything. It's a constant, wonderful study.

I have encountered people who have collected for 50 years who can't seem to get the basics down pat and keep getting burned on common forgeries. It's always made me wonder why they're still in the hobby. Unless the person's motivation is purely financial, why would anybody immerse themselves personally and financially in a field of which they're completely ignorant? I'll never understand this, but have seen it so often over the years.

It's entirely possible to successfully collect, buy and sell without LOAs or plastic tombs clogging up your collection. For many ungraded, unauthenticated items, you actually can achieve similar prices to their TPA-certed counterparts. It may take you more time to find that buyer, but if you're not in a huge rush, you'll be fine. How many times have you found yourself being able to sell something uncerted, yet couldn't because it was languishing on a shelf for months or more at some TPA, waiting to get entombed? (I'm strictly involved with autographs, so this last bit of advice applies mostly to that end of the hobby.)

jchcollins · #10 06-25-2022, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

The absence of a white border does not in any way eliminate centering from a grading platform or equation. It continues to be just as measurable and obvious to the collector from the visual clues of the card of photo and text.

I was just as concerned about centering as were the majority of collectors I knew in 1982 as I am in 2022. Grading just recognized that value was and is placed in the beauty of symmetry as has been recognized in art since its creation.

The absence of a white border doesn't mean that a card won't still be judged on centering by a TPG; correct. But it does make the problem of bad centering far less obvious to a collector ripping a pack.

You and your friends must have been ahead of your time. I knew nobody that was super concerned about centering (outside of miscuts maybe...) in the 1980's or 90's before PSA. Grading advancing centering issues was not a straightforward proposition. Before PSA, price guides that spoke to centering would refer to "uneven borders" or "slightly off center, OC, miscut". There was none of the paranoia trying to determine say the difference between 60/40 v. 65/35 that eventually came along after PSA. TPG's totally codified that - and a I think a lot of how collectors think of centering today is mainly the result of cognitive bias.

Exhibitman · #11 06-25-2022, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

70s-80s OPC cards are vastly undervalued for the same reason the Mantle is overvalued. Just try to locate PSA 9-10 80s OPC anything and you have to convince the 1 or 2 people with one to sell it. The QC was horrific, it's like Bob and Doug Mackenzie ran those cutters.

Early OPC is really underrated all across the board. Those are some tough cards to find in nice shape and especially with nice centering. I was very happy to add this one recently:

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