ebay authenticity guarantee limits now 250/750

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

John,
This is all part of them staying #1.

Of course. I'm just reflecting on how innocent it all once seemed to be.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Of course. I'm just reflecting on how innocent it all once seemed to be.

Yeah, it may have seemed innocent to you and me, but to Ebay it has always been serious business to them. It is just that we maybe haven't really been paying attention to everything they're doing until more of these recent moves that seem unusual to many. I would think most everything Ebay does is calculated and with a purpose that they aren't going to just openly tell us about.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

Yeah, it may have seemed innocent to you and me, but to Ebay it has always been serious business to them. It is just that we maybe haven't really been paying attention to everything they're doing until more of these recent moves that seem unusual to many. I would think most everything Ebay does is calculated and with a purpose that they aren't going to just openly tell us about.

Bob, the point of all this seems to be that the serious business and profit motive are not necessarily in the best interest of all buyers / collectors. Would you agree? Of course eBay is not going to advertise their motives in detail to their customer base.

I would think that this means that many are looking for ways around such formal platforms with fee structures and tax reporting requirements. To your earlier point, many (N54 is one) still exist, and I would guess that other ways to do business off the cuff would continue to arise.

Interestingly enough, the one thing I saw on Facebook last night related to this authentication model, and the customer was very happy with it. Of course he had just bought a '52 Topps #311, so that might have been worth waiting an extra 2 days for.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Bob, the point of all this seems to be that the serious business and profit motive are not necessarily in the best interest of all buyers / collectors. Would you agree? Of course eBay is not going to advertise their motives in detail to their customer base.

I would think that this means that many are looking for ways around such formal platforms with fee structures and tax reporting requirements. To your earlier point, many (N54 is one) still exist, and I would guess that other ways to do business off the cuff would continue to arise.

Interestingly enough, the one thing I saw on Facebook last night related to this authentication model, and the customer was very happy with it. Of course he had just bought a '52 Topps #311, so that might have been worth waiting an extra 2 days for.

John,

I absolutely agree some business, like Ebay, isn't necessarily doing things for the benefit of their buyers and sellers, they are doing it for their own bottom line. Don't forget, Ebay is a publicly traded company since 1998, and answers to their shareholders, not their buyers and sellers. It just works out that in some instances, what is good for Ebay, is to be doing good things for their buyers and sellers so they keep coming back.

Ebay didn't start collecting sales taxes on behalf of all sellers because they wanted to. Same with things like these authentication programs. Ebay was doing well and making lots of money before instituting such changes, why would they suddenly decide to go through all the additional time, effort, expense, and hassle to do these new things if they didn't think it made sense to them from a business standpoint in the long run?

And as you noted, some of these new changes they've made are actually going to work against Ebay's business. Like sales taxes being collected on all sales now. Buyers hate that they are now getting hit with sales tax on everything. Just go back and read posts from some members on here in threads right after that new rule was put into effect by Ebay. So Ebay may lose some buyers from making that change. But in doing so, Ebay is likely also thinking about the additional hassle and work their sellers are going to have to now deal with in regards to sales taxes, and how that may drive many of them to stop selling on Ebay. So by taking on the sales tax collection, remitting and reporting obligation for all sellers, it removes that burden from them and makes them more likely to continue selling on Ebay. And something else many people probably didn't even consider, it also appeases many of the bigger sellers on Ebay who would have had to start collecting sales taxes in various states due to that Supreme Court decision back in 2018 regarding sales taxes for online sellers, South Dakota vs. Wayfair. Because of their larger sales volume, many of these bigger Ebay sellers would be forced to start charging sales taxes in many states, whereas the smaller Ebay sellers wouldn't reach those thresholds requiring them to collect sales taxes, and wouldn't ever have to charge sales taxes on sales made to other states. This would give an unfair advantage to smaller Ebay sellers over the big sellers, which would piss the big sellers off. By Ebay deciding to just handle the sales tax themselves on all Ebay transactions, it appeases all the sellers, and especially their biggest sellers, by not giving some of their competitors who otherwise wouldn't have to charge a sales tax, a price advantage over them due to the sales tax. Ebay may lose some customers who don't want to pay the sales tax, but they won't lose them all. But if you lose the sellers, there are no Ebay customers at all because nothing is being sold.

See the logic behind such a business decision? I'm guessing there is similar thinking and logic behind these other decisions and changes Ebay has been making as well.

[Exhibitman]

Then don't be a business on eBay. eBay is no longer meant for scofflaws who want to hide taxable income or for dealers who want to pretend that they are hobbyists or investors rather than dealers.

Personally, I love selling on eBay because they determine, collect and remit the damned sales taxes for me. No muss, no fuss. Makes reporting my sales taxes each quarter a snap.

As for taxation, without getting into the specifics, filing as a business gives you a lot of flexibility in terms of timing, realizing and offsetting losses and claiming expenses.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Then don't be a business on eBay. eBay is no longer meant for scofflaws who want to hide taxable income or for dealers who want to pretend that they are hobbyists or investors rather than dealers.

Personally, I love selling on eBay because they determine, collect and remit the damned sales taxes for me. No muss, no fuss. Makes reporting my sales taxes each quarter a snap.

As for taxation, without getting into the specifics, filing as a business gives you a lot of flexibility in terms of timing, realizing and offsetting losses and claiming expenses.

What about the person that uses Ebay maybe a couple times a year to sell off a collectible they've upgraded, to generate some money for another purchase, or to cash in because they feel the market is right? Are they all dealers just because they used Ebay? See, this is one of the issues with dropping the 1099 reporting sales threshold from $20,000 down to $600. Someone who truly is just a casual seller and not really a dealer may now get targeted as being in an ongoing business because of the low sales reporting threshold amount.

Is someone who has a garage sale every year in a legal business? I don't believe so. So what is the difference if they use Ebay as their garage sale format instead, especially over these past couple of years due to the Covid issues? Using Ebay in and off itself does not a business make, which it sounds like you are kind of alluding to.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

What about the person that uses Ebay maybe a couple times a year to sell off a collectible they've upgraded, to generate some money for another purchase, or to cash in because they feel the market is right? Are they all dealers just because they used Ebay? See, this is one of the issues with dropping the 1099 reporting sales threshold from $20,000 down to $600. Someone who truly is just a casual seller and not really a dealer may now get targeted as being in an ongoing business because of the low sales reporting threshold amount.

Is someone who has a garage sale every year in a legal business? I don't believe so. So what is the difference if they use Ebay as their garage sale format instead, especially over these past couple of years due to the Covid issues? Using Ebay in and off itself does not a business make, which it sounds like you are kind of alluding to.

I understand what you are saying Bob but don't taxpayers have to meet certain qualifications to be deemed being in business? I did not think how the income is reported dictated that but maybe only played a part in whether someone was in business or not.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by BobC

What about the person that uses Ebay maybe a couple times a year to sell off a collectible they've upgraded, to generate some money for another purchase, or to cash in because they feel the market is right? Are they all dealers just because they used Ebay? See, this is one of the issues with dropping the 1099 reporting sales threshold from $20,000 down to $600. Someone who truly is just a casual seller and not really a dealer may now get targeted as being in an ongoing business because of the low sales reporting threshold amount.

Is someone who has a garage sale every year in a legal business? I don't believe so. So what is the difference if they use Ebay as their garage sale format instead, especially over these past couple of years due to the Covid issues? Using Ebay in and off itself does not a business make, which it sounds like you are kind of alluding to.

I've never paid taxes on stuff I've sold at garage sales (not that it amounted to much money). But then again, I never knew that we were required to... especially since virtually everything gets sold at a "bargain basement" style loss.

And what about the guy who sells his cards for cash, to a guy working the booth at a trade show? Or even the guy renting the booth, who sells the cards? I have a feeling these types of sales go largely unreported.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by BobC

What about the person that uses Ebay maybe a couple times a year to sell off a collectible they've upgraded, to generate some money for another purchase, or to cash in because they feel the market is right? Are they all dealers just because they used Ebay? See, this is one of the issues with dropping the 1099 reporting sales threshold from $20,000 down to $600. Someone who truly is just a casual seller and not really a dealer may now get targeted as being in an ongoing business because of the low sales reporting threshold amount.

Is someone who has a garage sale every year in a legal business? I don't believe so. So what is the difference if they use Ebay as their garage sale format instead, especially over these past couple of years due to the Covid issues? Using Ebay in and off itself does not a business make, which it sounds like you are kind of alluding to.

And that's likely ties in with, and is not surprising that, ebay sent out emails titled "Tell Congress their new 1099-K rules are confusing and unnecessary" with details like:

"Companies like eBay are required to report sales to the IRS using a tax form called a 1099-K. Until recently, you would only get a 1099-K if you sold over $20,000, or more than 200 items. Starting this year, new legislation has lowered that threshold to just $600, even if that was from a single sale all year. Where it gets complicated is you’ll get this form even if you don’t owe anything, because not all sales are taxable–for example, if you sell something for less than you paid for it. That means millions of sellers will now get unnecessary tax forms, creating confusion and pointless paperwork–both for the IRS, and for small-time sellers who aren’t set up to deal with it.

Imagine selling an old bike for $800 that cost you $1,500 a few years ago. Since you didn’t make a profit, the IRS doesn’t consider that taxable income. But under this new law, you’re still going to get a 1099-K. And now you’ll have to prove to the IRS that you don’t actually owe any taxes on that sale, which makes for complicated accounting work."

Contrary to some opinions here, there are a lot of people selling stuff that are not a business on ebay, nor will likely become one.