ebay authenticity guarantee limits now 250/750

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

I don't think Ebay has anyone grading cards that are already graded. My understanding is Ebay is having PSA review the holders of graded cards to make sure they are legit and haven't been tampered with. Not sure if they're also supposed to review the flips to make sure they're legit and accurate a well. That, to me, is way different that re-grading cards that have already been graded.

It is also a bit concerning because how and when did PSA suddenly become an expert in reviewing slabs, especially any other TPGs slabs? The TPGs most likely all contract with outside companies to design and manufacture the slabs they put cards in, and have people in their employ just learn what they need to seal them. Not sure how that specifically qualifies any TPG as an expert to review and determine that slabs may have been tampered with, or that they are legitimate to the TPG that supposedly issued them. I would think someone with the slab manufacturers and/or their designers, and a background in plastics, would actually be a much better choice. And if they are also concerned with the flips, and possible counterfeiting of them, PSA will certainly have full access to all their own graded cards records to be able to check cert #s and such, but how are they going to have such access to other TPG's records? And on the surface, this also can easily appear to be an inherent conflict of interest in that PSA is now looking at other TPG's slabs and can raise concerns and issues about them, while possibly passing on concerns and issues that may exist with their own slabs. I'm in no way saying they're doing that, but it is usually best to be independent in fact, AND APPEARANCE, when doing something like this.

I'm guessing that the actual card graders at PSA have little, if anything at all, to do with this graded card slab authentication program they're now involved in with Ebay. Many people have voiced concerns about how PSA has a huge grading backlog they are still dealing with, so they question how can they take on additional work like this for Ebay? I'm guessing the slab authentication is handled by none of the actual card graders at PSA, and is really having no impact on their grading backlog and getting caught up on it. Just speculation on my part.

To me it's all just more noise on top of noise. Flooding the proverbial zone...

All of the respected TPG's have had major trust issues at some point in their respective histories. Whether or not they have recovered / earned trust again is largely up to individual collectors. Clearly the PSA base was not significantly, if at all damaged - by PWCC-gate and related events since 2019.

eBay suddenly raising their heads to care about this at all out of nowhere is amusing to me if nothing else - they never before and do not now have the first bit of common hobby knowledge about sportscards, and until now have not ever pretended to act like they care. This is the company that still highlights $200k Fleer Jose Uribe cards in my social media feeds, for cripes sake.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

To me it's all just more noise on top of noise. Flooding the proverbial zone...

All of the respected TPG's have had major trust issues at some point in their respective histories. Whether or not they have recovered / earned trust again is largely up to individual collectors. Clearly the PSA base was not significantly, if at all damaged - by PWCC-gate and related events since 2019.

eBay suddenly raising their heads to care at all about this out of nowhere is amusing to me if nothing else - they never and do not now have the first bit of common hobby knowledge about sports cards, and until now have not ever pretended to act like they care. This is the company that highlights $200k Fleer Jose Uribe cards in my social media feeds, for cripes sake.

John.

Maybe it seems like just noise, especially for us collectors, but remember, cards are actually a very small part of Ebay's overall business. These things they do are likely being done from a more purely business standpoint, in mitigating any potential liability and other concerns, that may arise and scare off potential sellers and customers. Truth is, hard core collectors, like most of us on this forum, are not critical to Ebay's business, and Ebay virtually never thinks abouts or concerns themselves with Net54, or care what and how we feel about them.

Still, I can't imagine Ebay does things for no good reason. They likely view some of these things they are implementing as potentially heading off issues they feel may impact their business negatively down the road. And they don't have to tell us their real reasoning why! Unfortunately, not a lot we can really say or do, we just get stuck living with it.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

John.
Maybe it seems like just noise, especially for us collectors, but remember, cards are actually a very small part of Ebay's overall business.

No, I get it. eBay is the world's biggest garage sale. Hodgepodge galore, no specialization in any one area.

My comments on the last were pointed to the fact that they would seem to be implementing a very specific policy on something which they clearly have no expertise with. Maybe from a business standpoint they think it will help with the number of cases opened and returns initiated and that sort of thing, and that would be valid. But as to nuances of how collectors (and those that would consider themselves investors) would deal with the situation or the detail of operating practices for this TPG or that, you can't tell me that eBay has a clue. It's just an interesting proposition.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

No, I get it. eBay is the world's biggest garage sale. Hodgepodge galore, no specialization in any one area.

My comments on the last were pointed to the fact that they would seem to be implementing a very specific policy on something which they clearly have no expertise with. Maybe from a business standpoint they think it will help with the number of cases opened and returns initiated and that sort of thing, and that would be valid. But as to nuances of how collectors (and those that would consider themselves investors) would deal with the situation or the detail of operating practices for this TPG or that, you can't tell me that eBay has a clue. It's just an interesting proposition.

I agree with you John, they have no special expertise. But just like how they suddenly decided to start collecting sales tax for every auction, I think a lot of their reasoning was that they figured that if they didn't, they could be losing sellers. Think of all the people selling on Ebay that don't really know, or want to know, about collecting and remitting sales taxes. Also, that would have called for all their sellers to start registering with various states for licenses to collect and remit sales taxes. My guess is that Ebay saw that a lot of sellers would be gun shy and not want to bother doing that, or ever put up with the hassle of sales tax collection at all. And Ebay probably figured that since they are such a huge marketplace, they'd have a target on their back from states looking to find out who was selling on their site and ask for info to go after them. Ebay actually sells nothing, and is not at all responsible for collecting and remitting sales taxes to states. I can easily see Ebay thinking that by going overboard, and working out a deal with the states to collect sales tax on behalf of all their sellers, the states would be happy, and the sellers wouldn't have to deal with this and register with states and keep track of all this. That way they stay selling on Ebay.

These other moves regarding authentication are likely some kind of a pre-emptive things they think will help keep customers and sellers for them down the road. I know there are lots of people who think this new authentication program by Ebay is a scheme for them to be able to end up billing more fees. I don't think this is a fee issue for Ebay, just more of a "making sure the customers are happy" thing.

[Snapolit1]

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

Exactly, it isn't solely about PSA, CSG and card or slab authentication. It is a means to an end for them, to keep customers and sellers happy and coming back.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BobC

Exactly, it isn't solely about PSA, CSG and card or slab authentication. It is a means to an end for them, to keep customers and sellers happy and coming back.

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-seller/

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

Thanks Steve, that's interesting to know. Clearly as a business decision eBay can do anything they want, and most collectors who utilize them for the superior marketplace characteristics have no choice but to meekly comply.

How many of us have some kind of moderate / large issue with at least some aspect of how PSA does their business? I would guess most. How many of us continue to own and buy PSA slabbed cards anyway?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

I agree with you John, they have no special expertise. But just like how they suddenly decided to start collecting sales tax for every auction, I think a lot of their reasoning was that they figured that if they didn't, they could be losing sellers. Think of all the people selling on Ebay that don't really know, or want to know, about collecting and remitting sales taxes. Also, that would have called for all their sellers to start registering with various states for licenses to collect and remit sales taxes. My guess is that Ebay saw that a lot of sellers would be gun shy and not want to bother doing that, or ever put up with the hassle of sales tax collection at all.

I forget the specifics, but my understanding on the sales tax decision was that a court case came down which put the handwriting for that on the wall. I'm not sure if eBay was compelled to put that in place by a certain date or if it was just obvious that they would soon be challenged if they didn't. I will agree between issues like this, and changes to policy such as surrounding authentication - it would seem more difficult to business on eBay than ever before.

When I first joined eBay, you could see full info. on both sellers and buyers, and even message competing bidders. I once contacted a bidder who kept topping me saying "Hey could I persuade you to let me win this (vintage scouting photo...) because my father-in-law is in it, and I would like to give it to him as a gift." The guy wrote back and graciously agreed. Can you imagine anything like that happening today?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I forget the specifics, but my understanding on the sales tax decision was that a court case came down which put the handwriting for that on the wall. I'm not sure if eBay was compelled to put that in place by a certain date or if it was just obvious that they would soon be challenged if they didn't. I will agree between issues like this, and changes to policy such as surrounding authentication - it would seem more difficult to business on eBay than ever before.

When I first joined eBay, you could see full info. on both sellers and buyers, and even message competing bidders. I once contacted a bidder who kept topping me saying "Hey could I persuade you to let me win this (vintage scouting photo...) because my father-in-law is in it, and I would like to give it to him as a gift." The guy wrote back and graciously agreed. Can you imagine anything like that happening today?

John,

Ebay has definitely changed over the years, as you noted. They don't want anyone talking and sharing info so they potentially can have them go and deal off Ebay. They are just as strict and concerned with keeping their business with these other moves they are making as well. That seems pretty clear. I've worked with so many different businesses and business owners over the years, nothing surprises me as to the extent and levels many businesses will go for to see their goals achieved. Ebay does not have a monopoly on being an online sales platform, and they know it. Yet, they are the biggest and most well known platform out there, and stay there by being pre-emptive and taking care of things before they become a potential problem. This is all part of them staying #1.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

John,
This is all part of them staying #1.

Of course. I'm just reflecting on how innocent it all once seemed to be.