PWCC vault...explain

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

I've sent stuff directly to vault, removed them hours later for shipping, and have never been charged sales tax (my state has it). The minimal vault fee has been extremely less than the possible sales tax.

I don't know if this is legal, grey area, or if it may become an issue later. This seems to be their system setup, though.

You still owe the tax, unless you choose tax evasion. It's an issue for YOU, not PWCC. Did you really think it was that easy for you to evade taxes? Your state isn't that dumb.

[mrreality68]

I believe the vault concept has some merits and they were mentioned above.

For me however I would not use one for some of the reasons that Ryan mentioned.
In addition I am least comfortable at this point using the vault at PWCC because of their past reputation. Until those concerns are put to rest I would hold off.

They do have amazing inventory and their prices seem to get amazing returns for their sellers but the way they achieve/ or achieved that leaves me on the sidelines.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You still owe the tax, unless you choose tax evasion. It's an issue for YOU, not PWCC. Did you really think it was that easy for you to evade taxes? Your state isn't that dumb.

BioCRN,

What Peter is saying is true. My prior post was to spell out for you the story behind the issue and how it works and is likely perceived by various states. He's just more succinct and direct than I am. LOL I wanted you to understand the issues behind this a little better, and so you realize these "vaults" are, as I mentioned in an earlier post, often times taking advantage of human greed and laziness to pull in more people. And they aren't necessarily concerned with what they are proposing being 100% legal because technically, as Peter alluded to, the issue is mostly on you and not with the "vault" operator.

See, the sales tax is to either be collected and remitted by the seller of something, or paid by the buyer as what is then termed "use tax" if the seller was not otherwise required to collect and remit the sales tax. But if you buy something from say an AH or on Ebay, and have it sent to a "vault", that "vault" operator is not the buyer or the seller, and so really has no responsible for collecting or remitting sales tax, whatsoever. And if you subsequently ask them to send you your cards, that isn't a sale either, so they have no sales tax liability on just sending you your own cards. Now you may ask, "Yeah, but what if I purchased the item through PWCC and then had them put it into their "vault" for me, aren't they then the seller also, and possibly potentially liable for collecting and remitting the sales tax as such?" That might be true if these "vaults" are not set up as entirely different and separate entities from PWCC and Goldin's sales/auction entities. And trust me, they are going to be separate legal entities for liability and other protections, just like this sales tax issues and question. That is why I suggested you ask the "vault" operator you are using what they are/will do to protect you should the sales tax people come looking and calling. Otherwise, maybe think about at least leaving your cards in the "vault" a little longer before taking them out and home with you, and come up with and have ready a reasonable and believable story as to why you then suddenly did take your cards out of the "vault", aside from "So I could get out of paying sales taxes!".

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You still owe the tax, unless you choose tax evasion. It's an issue for YOU, not PWCC. Did you really think it was that easy for you to evade taxes? Your state isn't that dumb.

I may agree with the end result but I think the issue is a bit more nuanced.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You still owe the tax, unless you choose tax evasion. It's an issue for YOU, not PWCC. Did you really think it was that easy for you to evade taxes? Your state isn't that dumb.

Yeah, it's not a big deal for me and if they come for the loot they'll get it. My buying/selling isn't tied to a business and I can cover any personal liability if I choose to not directly address the issue.

I'm just sharing my experience of how the vault has been operating as far as requesting the cards being shipped to me and how long (or short, in this case) of time between being in the vault and being shipped.

Every piece of tax sketchiness (all of it from accident or oversight, btw) I've been involved in has been easily solved by agreeing to pay a lesser amount than I'm owed and without penalty anyway. This has all been personal liability not tied to a business, though.

[molenick]

I agree that using credit cards to buy collectibles is spending money you don't have (although I guess buying anything with credit cards is spending money you don't have).

I think of a cash advance against a consignment as a little different. If I consign what the auction house and I agree to be $6K of cards and they agree to advance me $2K then this is essentially a no interest, collateralized loan which the auction house and I agree will be paid back in full in a few months using the proceeds of the sale. The end result is that I have $2K now and $4k later to spend on whatever I choose to spend it on (as opposed to having $6K later). Either way it is based on the proceeds from actually selling the cards...not based on the cards merely existing somewhere in a vault.

I think (maybe?) this is different from money borrowed against cards someone is holding for me but which I have not agreed to sell. That is more like a home equity loan, where you borrow money against the value of your house but are not actually selling your house. In that case, I do think of it as a credit card scenario and in a sense as "money you don't have").

I could be wrong, just my take on it.