Players not yet eligible for the HOF

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

David Wright hits the ballot in 2024. He’s got fantastic rate stats at an underrepresented position and is a New York favorite.

6000 ABs and 242 homers - when your contemporaries include the better Adrian Beltre - just ain't enough for a 3B.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

6000 ABs and 242 homers - when your contemporaries include the better Adrian Beltre - just ain't enough for a 3B.

See post 35. Yes I agree. He is nowhere near as good as Beltre. Beltre is #3 among all 3B in WAR, 4th in JAWS, 7th in WAR 7. Beltre is not the standard of comparison for guys who may get into the HOF. Nor is Wright good enough statistically and I do not think he belongs. But statistics unfortunately are not the only factor.

[sreader3]

Here are the top 10 active pitchers in terms of wins (with age in parenthesis):

1. Justin Verlander (39) 231
2. Zack Greinke (38) 219
3. Max Scherzer (37) 195
4. Clayton Kershaw (34) 189
Adam Wainwright (40) 189
6. David Price (36) 155 L
7. Johnny Cueto (36) 135
8. Madison Bumgarner (32) 129
9. Gerrit Cole (31) 121
10. Lance Lynn (35) 115

Notice the dropoff after Wainwright.

The highest number of wins among pitchers under 30? Aaron Nola with -- 68.

The 300 win era is over. As is the 3000 strikeout era. The 200 win and 2000 strikeout thresholds are even questionable as requisite credentials.

The Hall will have to adjust unless it chooses to become a "hitters only" place.

That's why guys like Wainwright have a chance.

[Peter_Spaeth]

double post.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wainwright; don't see it. He'll be judged by the same standards as Verlander etc.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 28 (74), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 149 (118), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 88 (135), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 41 (74), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (126th):
46.1 career WAR | 36.1 7yr-peak WAR | 41.1 JAWS | 41.1 S-JAWS | 3.9 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66):
73.0 career WAR | 49.8 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162

[sreader3]

I don't necessarily disagree about Wainwright Peter but I don't think there is a single active pitcher beyond the Top 4 who has any chance to meet traditional HOF standards. So we are facing the "Hall of Hitters" in the next quarter century unless they elevate more Jim Kaats from the eras committees.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sreader3

I don't necessarily disagree about Wainwright Peter but I don't think there is a single active pitcher beyond the Top 4 who has any chance to meet traditional HOF standards. So we are facing the "Hall of Hitters" in the next quarter century unless they elevate more Jim Kaats from the eras committees.

As you say I think there will be new standards used to judge pitchers from, say, DeGrom on. Maybe the key metric will be games where the pitcher made it to the 4th inning before the manager went to the committee of castoffs and journeymen. I still can't get over Dave Roberts in the 2021 playoffs, who could not wait to yank Max Scherzer, a lock HOFer still seeming to be in his prime, in favor of some mediocre middle reliever. The new baseball I guess.

[RCMcKenzie]

I'd like to see the standards loosened like the NBA. Every player from your list and more, except for maybe Cole, ah heck, let him in too, and Michael Brantley, etc.

Another way to go, is to only allow Verlander and Pujols from that list. Famous players only. The best of the best.