Players not yet eligible for the HOF

[molenick]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t support his candidacy, but he’s close enough among 3B that his NY fan favorite status will get him considerable votes.

Sometimes being a NY fan favorite can help (Rizzuto, Hodges, Lazzeri, Combs, Gomez) but other times it doesn't help (Munson, Mattingly, Posada, Bernie Williams, Pettite, Hernandez). [Not meant as an extensive list...just names that came to mind.]

According to Baseball Reference, the most similar player to Kirby Puckett (first ballot) was Don Mattingly (topped out at 28%). I give credit to Puckett for playing a more important defensive position and for the post season...but Mattingly has an MVP and he was (and remains) a very popular player among Yankee fans.

Edited to add: I think it may help more in the Veteran's Committee where you basically need a favorable balance of people to get you in (like the Frankie Frisch years that got in Jesse Haines and George Kelly). I don't think it helps with the writers, who are from all over the country and where a pro-NY bias may be balanced by some anti-NY votes (or non-votes).

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by molenick

According to Baseball Reference, the most similar player to Kirby Puckett (first ballot) was Don Mattingly (topped out at 28%). I give credit to Puckett for playing a more important defensive position and for the post season...but Mattingly has an MVP and he was (and remains) a very popular player among Yankee fans.

They're similar but not. Puckett got in because his career ended in an instant when he was still a great player at a high leverage defensive position. Mattingly hung around for years as a not-great (overall) 1B with little power. Kirby was a great player for 10 years and still going strong at retirement. Mattingly was great for 6 and was below average offensively while playing the easiest defensive position by the end.

[molenick]

Fair enough. I'm not a big fan of Mattingly getting in (I think Hernandez should be in before him)...just that he was a very popular NY player and not a terrible candidate and that never got him over 30%.

I'm guessing Wright tops out in the 20s...the rate stats are good but not good enough to make up for the low counting stats. A Mets HOFer but not an MLB HOFer. Third base is under-represented, but Rolen is creeping up each year and Beltre is a lock.

[Svabinsky78]

Originally Posted by molenick

Fair enough. I'm not a big fan of Mattingly getting in (I think Hernandez should be in before him)...just that he was a very popular NY player and not a terrible candidate and that never got him over 30%.

I'm guessing Wright tops out in the 20s...the rate stats are good but not good enough to make up for the low counting stats. A Mets HOFer but not an MLB HOFer. Third base is under-represented, but Rolen is creeping up each year and Beltre is a lock.

Hernandez should be in....11 Gold Gloves, the most of any 1st baseman.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Svabinsky78

Hernandez should be in....11 Gold Gloves, the most of any 1st baseman.

And 162 homers.

If you start a 1B's HOF case talking about his defense, he doesn't belong.

[Svabinsky78]

Originally Posted by Tabe

And 162 homers.

If you start a 1B's HOF case talking about his defense, he doesn't belong.

11 Gold Gloves ...

60 WAR....

MVP...

Silver Sluggers

That's good enough for me ..

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Man maybe it's because I'm a Dodger fan but I'm certainly don't see Posey as a first ballot and have questions about him even making it. Even at a position that SHOULD have lower standards due to the physical demands of the job his totals are SO low. Not a lot of 1500 hit, 700 RBI, 600 Run, 150 HR guys in the hall even at catcher. A 44 career WAR doesn't impress much either. Great player, but not sure about HOF player.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Svabinsky78

11 Gold Gloves ...

60 WAR....

MVP...

Silver Sluggers

That's good enough for me ..

He's one of those guys that WAR loves for no discernible reason. Ex: 1982. 7 homers, 72 runs, 413 slugging - and he gets a 4.6 WAR. That's not even a good season let alone nearly All-Star but WAR thinks it is.

Also, he was washed up at 35 and played just 12 full seasons.

If you like Hernandez, put in John Olerud, too.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by molenick

Sometimes being a NY fan favorite can help (Rizzuto, Hodges, Lazzeri, Combs, Gomez) but other times it doesn't help (Munson, Mattingly, Posada, Bernie Williams, Pettite, Hernandez). [Not meant as an extensive list...just names that came to mind.]

According to Baseball Reference, the most similar player to Kirby Puckett (first ballot) was Don Mattingly (topped out at 28%). I give credit to Puckett for playing a more important defensive position and for the post season...but Mattingly has an MVP and he was (and remains) a very popular player among Yankee fans.

Edited to add: I think it may help more in the Veteran's Committee where you basically need a favorable balance of people to get you in (like the Frankie Frisch years that got in Jesse Haines and George Kelly). I don't think it helps with the writers, who are from all over the country and where a pro-NY bias may be balanced by some anti-NY votes (or non-votes).

Munson and Mattingly are good examples of what I'm talking about. Popular captain/leader of a NY team generates more HOF votes than they'd otherwise get. Mattingly is a 42 WAR 1B whose career nosedived at 28. He remains one of the most bought up 'when is he getting in' players though.

I'll bet Wright gets significant voting.