The Willie Mays price boom

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Wasn't always that way. When I was a kid in the late 80's - yeah, Clemente was popular and recognized as a HOF'er, but I don't think anyone thought he was better than say a Musial, and certainly from a popularity standpoint, he was behind Mantle, Mays, and Aaron. Again depending on perspective I could be wrong but I don't recall 80's Clemente having the popularity twist from also being Latino, and a humanitarian - that he seems to have now in the 21st century. I've just always thought he was a badass.

I don't know if people recognize Clemente as better than Musial. And I still think he may be less popular than Mantle, Mays and Aaron. But I think he is right behind them in popularity (maybe tied or ahead of Aaron?).

I believe the humanitarian award named for him was created shortly after his passing. I was born in 1980, and Clemente's always been my favorite player, and a lot of that has to do with his humanitarianism.

But I see your point that he has had a surge in popularity related to the growing Latino population in this country and the continued popularity of baseball in Latin America.

I also think that during Clemente's career, he had limited recognition until he won the MPV in '66 more than a decade into his career, and then it took off with the World Series MPV in 1971, late in his career. He started off pretty quietly statistically, and didn't make an All Star team until his 6th year.
http://www.espn.com/sportscentury/fe.../00014137.html

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I don't know if people recognize Clemente as better than Musial. And I still think he may be less popular than Mantle, Mays and Aaron. But I think he is right behind them in popularity (maybe tied or head of Aaron?).

I believe the humanitarian award named for him was created shortly after his passing. I was born in 1980, and Clemente's always been my favorite player, and a lot of that had to do with his humanitarianism.

But I see your point that he has had a surge in popularity related to the growing Latino population in this country and the continued popularity of baseball in Latin America.

I also think that during Clemente's career, he had limited recognition until he won the MPV in '66 more than a decade into his career, and then it took off with the World Series MPV in 1971, late in his career. He started off pretty quietly statistically, and didn't make an All Star team until his 6th year. http://www.espn.com/sportscentury/fe.../00014137.html

Yeah, not saying he was better than Musial - just saying that on-field greatness and how that translates to a hobby and popularity can sometimes be odd. True that he wasn't recognized nearly as he should have been during his career. There were also the 4 batting titles which seems to me were treated somewhat quietly. I was born in '77, but it wasn't until the last 15 years that I really began to think of Clemente differently in terms of his humanitarian efforts.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I don't know if people recognize Clemente as better than Musial. And I still think he may be less popular than Mantle, Mays and Aaron. But I think he is right behind them in popularity (maybe tied or ahead of Aaron?).

I believe the humanitarian award named for him was created shortly after his passing. I was born in 1980, and Clemente's always been my favorite player, and a lot of that has to do with his humanitarianism.

But I see your point that he has had a surge in popularity related to the growing Latino population in this country and the continued popularity of baseball in Latin America.

I also think that during Clemente's career, he had limited recognition until he won the MPV in '66 more than a decade into his career, and then it took off with the World Series MPV in 1971, late in his career. He started off pretty quietly statistically, and didn't make an All Star team until his 6th year.
http://www.espn.com/sportscentury/fe.../00014137.html

No not even close. Clemente's 63T PSA 8 is at $1000. Mays is $1900, Aaron is $2000.

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[Bigdaddy]

How many Frank Robinson fans do you know?

That's why his cards will always be undervalued based on his stats.

[Exhibitman]

Clemente's sacrifice in service of humanity will always ensure he is popular beyond his merit as a player, just like Jackie Robinson. Roberto Clemente and Jackie Robinson are the two baseball players I most admire as people.

[rats60]

Mays RC PSA 8 264k
Clemente RC PSA 8 99k
Aaron RC PSA 8 64k

Mays cards were about the same as Mantle cards until NY dealers bought them up in the mid 80s driving prices of Mantle up. Mantle has been increasing at a higher rate than Mays for ~35 years, but in the last 2 years Mays has separated himself from Clemente and Aaron and is closing the gap on Mantle.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by rats60

Mays RC PSA 8 264k
Clemente RC PSA 8 99k
Aaron RC PSA 8 64k

Mays cards were about the same as Mantle cards until NY dealers bought them up in the mid 80s driving prices of Mantle up. Mantle has been increasing at a higher rate than Mays for ~35 years, but in the last 2 years Mays has separated himself from Clemente and Aaron and is closing the gap on Mantle.

There are far more Aaron rookies than Mays, which accounts for much of the price difference between those cards. There are only 59 52T Mays cards in PSA 8 and 193 54T Aarons. Also, the fact that the 52T set is the gold standard for many collectors probably creates more demand for those cards.

Looking at an early year for both players, the 1957 Topps cards of both players in PSA 8 most recently sold for about $4500. You can check some other years and grades and I think you will find the prices between Mays and Aaron are pretty close.

[Kutcher55]

I would say Mays and Aaron are pretty close to parity in terms of like-for-like pricing. You can't compare the 51/52 Mays to the 54 Hank because of pop counts. To do a fair comparison you really need to get into the late 50s and beyond and it's pretty close.

I don't think vintage is booming anymore. It's probably inevitable with the market tanking and crypto crapping the bed that vintage is going to take a bit of a hit this year. I have seen signs of weakness and have sold quite a bit, although you can't have my Yastrzemskis and I don't want to let go of my Aaron RC either even if it might decline some.

I am probably in the minority but I put Henry above Willie in the Pantheon. Hank had a higher lifetime BA, and is the HR King*, the RBI King, the total base King, and had more hits, greater durability. Willie leads the War battle 156-143 and OPS .940 to .928. It's pretty close and you could make a case for either. I prefer Aaron's place in history and he also had a certain class that is hard for Mays to duplicate, not that Willie lacks class.

Some people think Willie's cards will go even higher when he passes on and I'm not so sure about that.

The '52 Topps Mays is a special card to me and it has really exploded in value in the last two years. I'll take it any day of the week over the Bowman issues. Heck I hope they all keep going up but I'm not so sure. I cringe a bit when I see guys selling vintage with the sales pitch that "it's only gonna keep going up." I am tempted to call them out on this assertion but I like to avoid internet battles whenever possible, despite them being somewhat enjoyable and a way to pass the time.