Future National Locations - Same Old Story

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ngnichols

Cleveland and Atlantic City are garbage locations and the only reason they are held there is more than likely they have a concession there for labor and get the venue for "cheap."

There is no way I'm spending money to go hang out in Atlantic City for a week. I went to Cleveland for 1.5 days and regretted it completely.

Why, because there was nothing else right around the IX Center in Cleveland to draw your attention and money, so you had to spend all your time and money at the show? I would actually think that is exactly what most all the dealers at the National would want.

There is the Rock and Roll HOF and Museum, the League Park field/museum where the Naps used to play and is the site of the first ever (unofficial) all-star game held as a benefit for Addie Joss' widow and family, the Canton Football HOF is only about an hour's drive away as well. Along with an actual national park only about a 15 minute drive away. The Indians/Guardians play in the city (as do the Browns and Cavaliers), and there are several minor league teams that play in the area as well. Casino gambling and other downtown Cleveland sites and amenities, such as restaurants and some gorgeous historic architecture, can be easily reached by taking the rapid transit from the airport. And that includes the Playhouse Square theatre district, which just happens to be the largest performing arts center in the US, outside of New York city. And of course, the airport is literally right next to the IX Center, which logistically is super accessible, and also another point favoring Cleveland for visitors.

Case in point, when I went to the very first Cleveland National back in the 90's, I was getting a lot of baseballs autographed. Was standing in front of Sandy Koufax to get two baseballs signed, and to make small talk, asked him how he liked coming to Cleveland. He actually stopped signing, and looked up at me for a moment with a reflective look on his face, and then said he didn't really know. He continued that a car picked him up at the airport and drove him right over to the show, and when his signing session was done, a car would take him right back to the airport so he'd board his flight back home. Kind of shrugged his shoulders and said he really wasn't going to see anything of the city to tell. I told him that's funny, because that's basically exactly what Bill Mazeroski had said. To which he got an excited look on his face and blurted out, "Maz is here?". I told him yeah, he was on the other side of the autograph pavilion. So, with a happy smile on his face he thanked me, and said he had to be sure to go find him before he left to say hi. He said no one told him who all was going to be there signing at the show. Finished signing for me, and gave me a big smile and a resounding handshake.

So there actually may be an awful lot more to see and do in Cleveland than you can imagine, you just have to get off your duff and go do something. And the ease and convenience of getting celebrity guests in and out of the show, along with accessibility to dealers and "reasonable" costs for setting up, are likely important contributing factors as well. Calling Cleveland and Atlantic City "cheap" seems a tad inappropriate, especially when you're comparing them to other big cities that may have a tendency to be way overpriced. Never forget the National is a business venture, first and foremost, so operating costs for the show and dealers will always be a primary concern. But a lot of naysayers are happy to complain about the venues, because the effort and work, along with the direct costs of setting up and paying for everything, aren't really their concern, are they? It is real easy to complain about something you're not responsible for.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by BobC

So there actually may be an awful lot more to see and do in Cleveland than you can imagine, you just have to get off your duff and go do something.

I've only been to one National and it was Cleveland in 2018 because I could stay with family and save the cost of a hotel. And Cleveland is a great town. My wife and I have talked about, when we are ready to stop dealing with the farm, retiring to one of the neighborhoods near downtown like Ohio City or Tremont. Ohio City in particular is a great place to visit with all sorts of restaurants and microbreweries. And for folks who like amusement parks, Cedar Point is just an hour away.

As far as alternate locations, I have been to three of the Dallas shows in recent years and I thought they were well organized. I would have thought, contra Rich, that they could probably put on a good National show. But, what about Houston? I wouldn't want to live there, but the TriStar show seems to do fairly well.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

I've only been to one National and it was Cleveland in 2018 because I could stay with family and save the cost of a hotel. And Cleveland is a great town. My wife and I have talked about, when we are ready to stop dealing with the farm, retiring to one of the neighborhoods near downtown like Ohio City or Tremont. Ohio City in particular is a great place to visit with all sorts of restaurants and microbreweries. And for folks who like amusement parks, Cedar Point is just an hour away.

As far as alternate locations, I have been to three of the Dallas shows in recent years and I thought they were well organized. I would have thought, contra Rich, that they could probably put on a good National show. But, what about Houston? I wouldn't want to live there, but the TriStar show seems to do fairly well.

Ohio City is very cool. Close by the famous Westside Market, which is also where Great Lakes Brewery is headquartered and has a restaurant/bar. And there is another great little eating establishment in the heart of the very residential area of Ohio City called Heck's Cafe, which also happens to be maybe 100 feet down the street from John Heisman's birthplace.

[Exhibitman]

I am going to go with the unpopular opinion here: I like the Cleveland show, sort of the way you like the weird cousin you visit with at a family event--not exactly someone you'd pal around with all the time, but interesting every year or so. As long as you understand that you are going to be in a car every day to and from the venue, and in a car any time you want to get a decent meal. The airport is easy to get through, the hotel aren't walkable to the show but some are pretty close, and once you resign yourself to a drive, you can find some really good places to eat. Last time a group of us had a couple of really good dinners in town. We just had to drive there. Good ice cream too...if that makes a difference.

As for Vegas, I've been to a number of bar association events there in the summer months, and have gone there on trips myself. Yeah, it is hot outside, but everything is available and room prices are really good. Plus, the airport is world class.

[Jewish-collector]

Adam - You used to hate the National in Cleveland. What changed your mind ?

[Exhibitman]

Driving. Being from LA it is a treat for me to go a place where I do not need a car, so I hate having to rent a car and deal with it, but last time I decided to go with it and had a good time. Getting away from the IX Center is critical, as is not using the bathrooms there after 10:00 a.m. (worst place to drop a deuce this side of TJ). Still, Rosemont is light years better.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Driving. Being from LA it is a treat for me to go a place where I do not need a car, so I hate having to rent a car and deal with it, but last time I decided to go with it and had a good time. Getting away from the IX Center is critical, as is not using the bathrooms there after 10:00 a.m. (worst place to drop a deuce this side of TJ). Still, Rosemont is light years better.

Huge difference is there's little traffic in and around Cleveland.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am going to go with the unpopular opinion here: I like the Cleveland show, sort of the way you like the weird cousin you visit with at a family event--not exactly someone you'd pal around with all the time, but interesting every year or so. As long as you understand that you are going to be in a car every day to and from the venue, and in a car any time you want to get a decent meal. The airport is easy to get through, the hotel aren't walkable to the show but some are pretty close, and once you resign yourself to a drive, you can find some really good places to eat. Last time a group of us had a couple of really good dinners in town. We just had to drive there. Good ice cream too...if that makes a difference.

As for Vegas, I've been to a number of bar association events there in the summer months, and have gone there on trips myself. Yeah, it is hot outside, but everything is available and room prices are really good. Plus, the airport is world class.

2nd you on liking Cleveland ^

My wife dragged me in a cab 45 minutes outside Cleveland to Vermillion to go to a fancy restaurant on the water. Little town was super cool and we ended up having a great dinner and walk around near the lake. Don't remember much of what I purchased that National, but I do remember all of the Vermillion experience.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by BobC

Why, because there was nothing else right around the IX Center in Cleveland to draw your attention and money, so you had to spend all your time and money at the show? I would actually think that is exactly what most all the dealers at the National would want.

There is the Rock and Roll HOF and Museum, the League Park field/museum where the Naps used to play and is the site of the first ever (unofficial) all-star game held as a benefit for Addie Joss' widow and family, the Canton Football HOF is only about an hour's drive away as well. Along with an actual national park only about a 15 minute drive away. The Indians/Guardians play in the city (as do the Browns and Cavaliers), and there are several minor league teams that play in the area as well. Casino gambling and other downtown Cleveland sites and amenities, such as restaurants and some gorgeous historic architecture, can be easily reached by taking the rapid transit from the airport. And that includes the Playhouse Square theatre district, which just happens to be the largest performing arts center in the US, outside of New York city. And of course, the airport is literally right next to the IX Center, which logistically is super accessible, and also another point favoring Cleveland for visitors.

Case in point, when I went to the very first Cleveland National back in the 90's, I was getting a lot of baseballs autographed. Was standing in front of Sandy Koufax to get two baseballs signed, and to make small talk, asked him how he liked coming to Cleveland. He actually stopped signing, and looked up at me for a moment with a reflective look on his face, and then said he didn't really know. He continued that a car picked him up at the airport and drove him right over to the show, and when his signing session was done, a car would take him right back to the airport so he'd board his flight back home. Kind of shrugged his shoulders and said he really wasn't going to see anything of the city to tell. I told him that's funny, because that's basically exactly what Bill Mazeroski had said. To which he got an excited look on his face and blurted out, "Maz is here?". I told him yeah, he was on the other side of the autograph pavilion. So, with a happy smile on his face he thanked me, and said he had to be sure to go find him before he left to say hi. He said no one told him who all was going to be there signing at the show. Finished signing for me, and gave me a big smile and a resounding handshake.

So there actually may be an awful lot more to see and do in Cleveland than you can imagine, you just have to get off your duff and go do something. And the ease and convenience of getting celebrity guests in and out of the show, along with accessibility to dealers and "reasonable" costs for setting up, are likely important contributing factors as well. Calling Cleveland and Atlantic City "cheap" seems a tad inappropriate, especially when you're comparing them to other big cities that may have a tendency to be way overpriced. Never forget the National is a business venture, first and foremost, so operating costs for the show and dealers will always be a primary concern. But a lot of naysayers are happy to complain about the venues, because the effort and work, along with the direct costs of setting up and paying for everything, aren't really their concern, are they? It is real easy to complain about something you're not responsible for.

This post convinced me to take the 4 hour drive from Toronto to visit Cleveland this summer.

[Leon]

Nice old thread.....Mike Berkus (RIP) Explaining the National locations selection process, a little bit...(there is even a Bruces sighting)
Post # 26

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114661

.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice old thread.....Mike Berkus (RIP) Explaining the National locations selection process, a little bit...(there is even a Bruces sighting)
Post # 26

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114661

.

It is about time the Bruces get their membership status reinstated to 'member' from 'guest'. They have done a good job refraining from making vile and demeaning posts for many years now.

Brian...my vile and demeaning posts shall never be squelched, at least until I too reach the great beyond (insert evil laughter here).

[Bridwell]

I went to a few Nationals, in the 1980-90s. The one in Anaheim was massive! What a turnout! I remember one in Arlington, TX where the turnout was huge and the room was overwhelmed. If the National doesn't come to TX, CA or FL soon, I would expect a "competitor national" will emerge. If the demand exists, then the market will provide an alternative. The market is hot and it can now support more than one big show per year.